1 2 Previous Next 10 Replies Latest reply: Nov 4, 2012 7:55 AM by msturgis RSS

    Verizon needs to get out of handset business

    msturgis

      Verizon is NOT a handset manufacturer, yet it sells handsets. The ones Verizon sells are the ONLY ones that work with its network. This model is 100% geared towards total control at the expense of consumer satisfaction. On the other hand, GSM carriers allow ANY compatible handsets to be used with their network. If they can do it, why not Verizon? By Verizon getting into the handset selling business, this is what we get:

       

      1. Extremely limited handset selection: Verizon decides what models we get to choose from. At a time, it's a handful of 25-30 devices. GSM subscribers have hundreds and hundreds of device choices.

       

      2. Limiting features: Verizon can and does limit various features of the handsets it sells. Verizon has a history of being a total control freak to force customers to pay to use its own services instead of device capabilities. Back in the day, Verizon forced its customers to use its picture mail service to share pictures by locking down Bluetooth capabilities.

       

      3. Bloatware: Where do I begin with this. All the handsets they sell come with performance eating buggy bloatware that you can't remove.

       

      4. Devices are one cycle behind: There is no argument that all the newest and the greatest features are made available to the unlocked GSM handsets and we have to wait sometimes a full cycle to get the same features simply because manufacturers have to get the signal from Verizon.

       

      5. OS updates: Screen the forum and how many hundreds of threads with the title "Where is my update? do you see"? Verizon holds up the updates for each and every single handset it sells. Non-carrier branded phones get the updates directly from the manufacturers without much delay.

       

      6. Service and support: Verizon's handset support is one of the worst in the industry. Why? One reason: the people you go to for support are pressure-driven towards sales and every minute they spend on you not selling is a minute wasted by not selling. In countries where manufacturers directly sell phones to consumer have a full infrastructure for after sales support. Every major manufacturers have walk-in support store where you can have your phones repaired under warranty or by paying for repair services (just like apple stores in the US).

       

      Now one can try to make a point on the cost of unlocked handset costs. First of all, no contract price of phones that Verizon sells are WAY higher than unlocked GSM phones of same level. Not only the off-contract prices of Verizon handsets are insanely inflated, but also their contract price is quite high. For example, the Droid Razr's retail price is near $600, on contract it's $200-$300. Yet, the latest and the greatest UNLOCKED LG Nexus G is selling for $300 retail in the Play Store. So, Verizon is sticking it to us again by inflating the "retail" price and then giving us phony discounts to make it look like we are getting a deal.

       

      The Bring Your Own Device revolution has already started in this country. There are SO MANY advantages to this model for consumers. Once everyone buys device off contract and directly from manufacturers, manufacturers DIRECTLY compete for your business, quality goes up, prices come down. Not to mention, no carrier bloatware, timely updates and more cutting edge features.

       

      If other carriers worldwide can do it, why not Verizon? Verizon is not even CLOSE TO BEING the largest carrier in the world - it's currently ranked 18th in the world, with the #1 carrier having 6 times more subscribers than Verizon. If they can do it, why not Verizon?

        • 1. Re: Verizon needs to get out of handset business
          msturgis

          Brian68, before you can ask "Then why are you still with Verizon", let me announce to you that I have about 9 months left on my contracts for 5 lines, and I am moving to a BYOD (not necessarily pre-paid) as soon as contract is up. Hope you are happy.

          • 2. Re: Verizon needs to get out of handset business

            Well Verizon uses CDMA not GSM and I think you realize that. Now how do you propose a CDMA device to work on a GSM network? Basically what you are saying is yo want Verizon to sell phone that work on GSM ( which Verizon doesn't use ) so one day you can take that device to another company? And you wonder why Verizon doesn't do that? And if you're leaving in 9 months why do you care what Verizon does anyway? Good luck with your next carrier.

            • 3. Re: Verizon needs to get out of handset business
              SydneyK

              I agree with you that there are many advantages to GSM and BYOD. I'm with Verizon because I like the peace of mind in knowing I will have coverage everywhere and I get a nice corporate discount. But every area is different. If there are several GSM providers in your area, there's no harm in buying an unlocked GSM phone and trying them out to see if any give you the coverage you need.

               

              I guess the only word of warning I'd have then is make sure you don't lose your number. For example, on the Straight Talk BYOD plan, your service can be cut off without notice if you exceed 2GB a month and your number can then be lost. Maybe you'd want to port your number to Google Voice when your contract is up, then have it forwarded to your new carrier(s) so you never lose it. The other thing I hate about some of those carriers is the deception in advertising unlimited data, like that ST plan, when it's not even close to being unlimited. Transparency is more important to me than savings, but that's just me.

              • 4. Re: Verizon needs to get out of handset business
                msturgis

                No where in my post I said CDMA devices should be allowed with GSM carriers and vice-versa. The CDMA phones Verizon sells are pretty generic at the hardware level, meaning NOT exclusive to Verizon. It's the software that makes it a Verizon phone. Technically, Verizon can accept Sprint/Cricket/MetroPCS phones and vice-versa. I'm sure you know that many Cricket customers use Verizon/Sprint/MetroPCS handsets with flashed software because hardware compatibility is there.

                 

                So, if Verizon had allowed CDMA phones from sources other than its own portfolio to be used on its network, there would be market for unlocked CDMA phones that can be used with any CDMA carrier. Then customers would get the same benefit as the customers of unlocked GSM handsets.

                 

                I am sure even Verizon will go this route once it has deployed LTE everywhere and uses LTE as its voice carrier )over voLTE). Since, LTE is a GSM evolution (3GPP2 spec) anyway, it wouldn't be out of the question.

                 

                And why do I care if I am leaving Verizon in 9 months? Because, if Verizon had that model, may be I didn't need to move. Also, at the same time, if and when Verizon does allow unlocked phones on its network, may be I will come back. Besides, even if I wasn't or will never be a Verizon customer, I can still have an opinion - just like you have opinions on 100 million things that you are not a part of directly.

                • 5. Re: Verizon needs to get out of handset business
                  msturgis

                  Pre-paid MVNOs are not the only option for BYOD services. And also, I didn't advocate BYOD model because service cost is cheaper. BYOD model = greater choices, greater flexibilities and better user experience in the handset part of the equation. And my discussion is limited to that really, not service and service cost.

                   

                  I might even pay more with another carrier than what I pay with Verizon now so that I can have more device choices, better features as well as better device experience. When I said BYOD, it doesn't automatically mean ST or other MVNOs.

                  • 6. Re: Verizon needs to get out of handset business

                    msturgis wrote:

                     

                    No where in my post I said CDMA devices should be allowed with GSM carriers and vice-versa.

                    really? What do you mean by this then?

                     

                    On the other hand, GSM carriers allow ANY compatible handsets to be used with their network. If they can do it, why not Verizon?

                     

                    Ok what other network besides Sprint uses CDMA? So do you mean Sprint phones should be able to work on Verizon even though Sprint phones use different frequencies. Yeah keep explaining how this grand plan works.

                    • 7. Re: Verizon needs to get out of handset business
                      msturgis

                      Take some reading classes before trying to understand my posts:

                      "On the other hand, GSM carriers allow ANY compatible handsets to be used with their network. If they can do it, why not Verizon? " -

                      means if GSM carriers can allow compatible devices to be used with their networks (such as T-Mobile allowing a non-T-mobile but compatible phone to used with its network), why can't Verizon allow non-Verizon but compatible devices to be used with Verizon's network.

                       

                      Answers to your questions:

                      Sprint and Verizon both use 1900MHz for their CDMA networks.

                      Besides Sprint and Verizon, there are at least 20+ CDMA carriers in the USA, including MVNOs. Biggest of them is MetroPCS, which has already started VoLTE services.

                       

                      The idea here is if Verizon allowed handsets from non-verizon source, there would be a market for it and manufacturers would make phones to be sold directly to consumers, EVEN IF Verizon was the only CDMA carrier.

                       

                      << Comment removed.  Please refrain from personal attacks on other posters.  >>

                       

                      Message was edited by: Verizon Moderator

                      • 8. Re: Verizon needs to get out of handset business

                        msturgis wrote:

                         

                        Sprint and Verizon both use 1900MHz for their CDMA networks.

                        Besides Sprint and Verizon, there are at least 20+ CDMA carriers in the USA, including MVNOs. Biggest of them is MetroPCS, which has already started VoLTE services.

                         

                        << Comment removed.  Please refrain from personal attacks on other posters.  >>

                         

                        Try using a Sprint phone on Verizon LTE network and tell me how that works out.

                         

                        << Comment removed.  Please refrain from personal attacks on other posters.  >>

                         

                        Within 8 years Verizon won't be using CDMA and at&t won't be using GSM so why does it even matter?

                         

                        Message was edited by: Verizon Moderator

                        • 9. Re: Verizon needs to get out of handset business
                          budone

                          The reason TMobile allows other devices is they are starving for subscribers.

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