Windows Phone 8.1 & Cyan Firmware - When?

[#1]

SeraphX2 wrote:

Then they shouldn't be messing with my phone.  Whatever I pay them, some of that money goes to their developers to add apps to my phone and mess with how it works.  Regardless of what it *says* I am paying for, my monthly fee goes to somehow pay their developers.

I am sure our money pays all salary and benefits to all officers and employees. I know it pays on my stocks, it pays for roaming agreements, it pays for system upgrades and advertising and probably much more.

I know before I retired we used in house developers and programmers as well as outsourced vendors. So even if that is true does not negate what the price we pay is for.

As per our customer agreements it is for connectivity to the network, and even in that is a gotcha. That connectivity is not guaranteed. I know its crazy and I don't have to agree with it but we are all caught in that gotcha.

And being a user of Microsoft products I have many systems using 8.1 now going all the way back to DOS.

Windows 3.1, 95, 98, ME, XP,7,vista right on up.

When you say messing with your device, is that not what Microsoft has done from the beginning?

Let's see every Tuesday is "patch Tuesday" every OS they upgrade to is later downgraded later on.

Security issues abound. The os upgrades even favor one vendor over another while making a perfectly good perphial device kaput. So isn't that Microsoft messing with peoples machines?

Its all in how we look at a situation.

[#2]

op2388 wrote:

Again, the agreement makes it legal, not right. 

All that matters is that it's legal. Once again if you don't agree the solution is to go elsewhere for service. That's the reality of it.

[Tidbits]

Hey look...  talk about transparency...  You can see things that Nokia/MS is hiding...  You can tell exactly in what phases the manufacturers is in...

One (M8) with Lollipop spotted in Bluetooth docs, as HTC promises speedy updates

So how is it that HTC can have things easy to find for certification.  Sony does the same, and Motorola does the same too for Android.  They even jump in and said updates within 90days...  IF carriers had so much power and can stop updates from happening like people think...  WHY would these manufacturers make the claims like they do?  Doesn't add up to me.

Like I said earlier... We need to stop blaming the carriers and start doing what Europe is doing and blaming manufacturer.  These 3 companies were affect by how Europe sales, and complaints hurt their respective business'.  They changed how they do things and became more transparent while not hiding behind carriers.  Currently these companies are doing and taking claim on the update processes.   Let's move forward people and try what is actually bringing in the fish!

[SeraphX2]

The reason Verizon is being blamed in this instance is because VZW controls when the updates come out.

Nokia/MS cannot release the 8.1/Cyan update to users because they have no control over firmware update releases.

If you joined the Developer Preview, you could get 8.1 since it is the software OS updates, but you still cannot get Cyan until VZW approves it.

Per the contract, MS is not allowed to provide final Firmware updates without VZW approval.  That is why the Lumia Cyan firmware update for Nokia phones is not on any Verizon phone but is on plenty of other carrier's phones.

What don't you get about that?

If you want to understand how the system works, here is a response from MS that explains why WP users are waiting for their update: Cyan for Dev Preview - Microsoft Community

If you go down to the first post by Mike Mongeau, you can see he says: "we are not able to offer the firmware component (i.e. Cyan) until it's been approved through the operator channel".  Operator Channel = Carrier = Verizon.

If you go here, you can see that not a single VZW device has been approved for the 8.1/Cyan update.

[Tidbits]

Then how are other manufacturers able to do what Nokia can't do?  Come let's be serious here.  Companies are making bold statements if Verizon can withhold updates...  If it was out of manufacturers control then wouldn't be making such claims.

[Tidbits]

Also that update process is obscure and doesn't give any REAL information.  I am willing to put money on that Nokia process is no different...  HTC, Motorola, and Sony when they showed transparencies show identical process with just slightly different names.

Case in point hey... look at HTC's update schedule and it is detailed and outlined...

HTC Software Updates | HTC United States

Oh look a popup claiming the 90 days!

click on the Android head and you'll see the whole process...  Nothing bundled together to cause confusion, and everything is outlined during the process where you can see which devices will get the update and exactly where in the process it is in...  Amazing!

Also under the same listing...  810 isn't getting the next update...  Nokia was the one that dropped support for it, and T-Mobile got blamed for it...  So yah it's always the carriers fault...  Let's be honest here.  Yes I own the 710(trashed), 810(trashed), 925(Sold), 1520(use), and M8(use)

[SeraphX2]

Apple refuses to let carriers mess with their phones.  Once they became popular and Verizon could get in on the action, it would be financial suicide not to take the phone under Apple's rules.  Apple controlled the game because they were big and they were the only one.  AT&T took the plunge because they were a company falling apart and the iPhone saved them financially.

The first Android phone on Verizon was November 2009.  If Google demanded restrictions be raised, then Verizon could do nothing but comply because iPhone was still exclusive to AT&T and they needed a smartphone.

WP7 was released in Oct 2010, but refused to carry one.

Verizon didn't get iPhone until 2011, and at this time, iPhone was still the biggest smartphone.

By the time they picked up their first WP phones 2 years ago, the smartphone market was flooded enough that to become a new competitor, VZW had nothing to lose by demanding some control.  They had done it for years on their dumbphones, and they really wanted control.  The only reason VZW didn't initially have iPhone is because they gave up on the bid for iPhone because they wouldn't be allowed to control it (no one could predict how popular smartphones would become at that time and VZW still had their practices they wanted to retain).

There is no reason for MS to say that VZW is in charge of approvals unless it's true.  There is no discernible ulterior motive that can be gained other than shifting blame, but there is no reason to do that because it is something that could easily be discovered by VZW simply saying they aren't the ones holding it up.  Have you seen such a claim from VZW that they don't have to approve it?  Probably not since one doesn't exist.

It also stands to reason since the update is available for other phones on other carriers and VZW is the only holdout, that there is something the carriers are doing to hold it back.  MS released the Developer Preview so people who were not getting software updates (since official final releases of the OS bundle the software and firmware together) could at least get those.  Microsoft has been generous in letting the Developer Preview users have as much as they can dish out.  Why would an update that is running perfectly fine on other phones other carriers be exclusively deniedfrom phones on only particular carriers (TMo [tho TMobile has announced their phones are getting updated soon] and VZW) if the carriers had nothing to do with it?

[Tidbits]

Again like other manufactures including apple...  Apple purposely withhold updates for their devices to update all the devices at once.  They are not immune to the carrier testing process.  Join their ADC program and you can see when Apple is done with actually updating certain devices and exactly when.  So show me exactly any factual evidence that it is in fact done and Verizon has it.  Where's the statement from Nokia saying so? Where's the BT sig, WiFi certification, or FCC approval papers because under Nokia obscure update page those are part of where Nokia is supposedly at...

Just because the update is on another carrier doesn't mean it is finished for others...  A manufacturer can stick to their guns and force carriers to take it or leave it.  Apple has done it, and Google has done it.  See Nexus 6.

HTC limited what they are willing to do for carriers, as well as Motorola.  They also showing their schedules in a transparent as can be without violating any NDA, or trade secrets.

In a T-Mobile thread on their forums there are points where Nokia was the one giving out the dates and T-Mobile regurgitated what Nokia told people in an email.  Since Nokia released that information it is not under any NDA...  It was probably some Nokia rep who didn't have a clue and threw any information whether true or false to get rid of the person(s).

All in all T-Mobile actually issued a statement where they can neither confirm nor deny anything about the update for their Windows Phone devices.  They suggested asking Nokia for further information.  People asked and Nokia has not responded and it's been 3 weeks since people started doing that...

[SeraphX2]

Nokia IS Microsoft now and I just showed you where one of the Microsoft employees that is privy to the release process said that we are waiting for VZW approval.

Did you not read what I posted at all?

[Tidbits]

What's the guys name and what division does he work at? I have friends that work at MS too but they don't work in the section that would know. They hear rumors all the time. If you ever worked in a large office... I want to see this official statement on record nor hearsay.