Still NO Windows Phone 8.1 Update? FCC? Attorney General?

[sayvilleguy]

I just joined this forum today. And I was one of the first to use Compaq iPAQ Pocket PC's.

Windows has gone full circle and with Windows 8.1, they are giving android and IOS a run for their money.

I'm done using android and apple devices that pretend to be windows office compatible. Just try to get any desktop PowerPoint to look like it should on any of these other devices. It's never better than 80% likeness.

[Tidbits]

The problem MadDog... You can't force a company to release something that isn't finished. You let alone Nokia has shown any proof it is finished. FCC will follow through with your "concerns" but as soon as Verizon shows anything about it being worked on or not completed by Nokia then nothing will be done. Just because it's on a handful of devices doesn't mean it's 100% complete.

[MadDogFL62]

I think you have been using the DP.  Releases are pretty clean.  Not saying don't test.  I am saying pre test.  The idea of pre-release testing is to pinpoint potential issues at the time of release and to speed up any regression testing that may be a part of the process at that same time.  Software QA 101.  Potential issues could be with the device.  Potential issues could be because of the software.  Bitlocker is an example.  The inability to load the DP on many ATIV devices is another.  If a 6+ week process can turn into 2 weeks for each release, that's a win in my book.  Microsoft provides such early release software and programs to all of their WP carriers.  Clearly, VZW does not participate.  It's time to find out why and what can be done about it.

[Tidbits]

Even with a DP(yes I have used the DP as well as beta tested the M8).  Even with pretesting something can and do come up at the end and could delay any such release even with pretesting. Software QA 101.  Just because it's on one device and not another doesn't mean they are done with the update(this is the general premise that people are using).  It doesn't matter if VZW does it or not.  It's not required.  Apple requires it and they still give the placebo effect on a simultaneous release on all their devices.  Even with pretesting it will not guarantee shorting developmental times.  Apple has shown this if you ever done ADC.  Some devices are finished before others.  Sometimes it's just CDMA devices are first while GSM devices are first.  Apple deals with a small number of devices and they don't finish everything at the same time and the problems.

I think you have a beyond optimistic view on software development.

[nemz]

Chipeast,

You obviously have so much experience with this.  You should know that the customer complaint process is procedural, not regulatory.  If a complaint leads them to believe that a regulation isn't being followed, they will investigate.  If enough complaints accumulate that lead them to believe the customer is somehow being violated; and there is no regulation in place, they will create new regulations.  The issue here is that Verizon is acting within regulation and there is no violation to the customer other than the inconvenience of not getting a much-wanted update (though not a necessity).

As for blocking apps, Verizon cannot do this without good reason.  They have to give a reason that an app is unlawful or harmful to it's network.  This is the case with Google Wallet and I'm assuming it's the case with the others you mentioned.  The case with the C-block regulation also had to do with apps provided from other parties.  Verizon can't ask for an app to be removed from the store (unless they have good reason as stated above); however, they still have the option to withhold an app that has been placed in their hands.  If they are given the 8.1 update and are responsible for distributing it, they can choose not to.  It is their right to do so.  As of right now there's no proof that they are withholding it.  I still believe the update is coming, but they are just taking their time to release it.

All I'm saying is to have patience and stop throwing tantrums.  We want the update, but we don't need it.  Crying to the FCC that Verizon hasn't released it yet isn't going to  make it come any faster.  The average American's sense of entitlement to things they don't really need is one of the reasons every other country in the world hates us.  The more time that Verizon employees waste talking to the FCC about regulations they haven't breached is time they could be putting into the update.

PS: Don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.  I've had MUCH more experience interpreting the Code of Federal Regulations than you ever will chip.

[Chipeast]

nemz

Regulation: is the act or process of regulating. So yes, handling complaints is within the process of regulating. Interacting with business also falls under this definition.

VZW is acting within current regulation. Complaining to the FCC has and will inspire new regulation. Maybe not on this topic, but if no one complained there would be a lot less regulation. Complaints typically come from customers complaining to the FCC or from device makers, operating system developers and/or their lobbyists. The real issue is that current regulation allows VZW to delay available updates to improve profitability, encourage new hardware sales and to stifle competition. This is what many here would hope to change by promoting new standards and regulations. This is also why it is listed in the FCC report on competition.

Verizon can block apps for any reason they can get away with. Many apps that Verizon has blocked have been simply to stifle competition. Including Google Wallet, Optical reader and ChatOn. Google wallet is blocked because VZW does not want to give up exclusive rights to the secure element. VZW has no grounds to say that an app accessing secure element is dangerous or a threat to network security. VZW wants it's own app and competitive product ISIS to have exclusive rights to the secure element. Each of these banned apps have been removed at VZW's request in order to stifle the competition of competitive products to those that VZW charges for.

We are not talking about the 8.1 update here, we are talking about the CYAN update...

All I am saying here is stop trolling, and if you are going to troll at least be right.

Glad you got my name right.

[Chipeast]

I correct myself, the topic is in fact on 8.1 rather than Cyan.

[Tepid]

Actually, it's both. They are not going to release one without releasing the other.

They could release just WP8.1.1 and be done with it.

But Cyan adds a lot of new features to the Icon.

Miracast is one of them.

I am still giving benefit of the doubt to VZW that the updates (both Cyan and WP8.1.1 and soon GDR2)

will be released. They are falling WAY behind. This isn't good customer service at all.

I don't care how they want to spin it, what reg's they want to throw out as justification for not releasing these updates.

Or what Policies may be in the agreement.

Showing little to ZERO support for a product you sell that will actually improve that product and keep

people paying for the service, is in fact, BAD CUSTOMER SERVICE.

While losing a few thousand customers won't mean squat, eventually it could lead to more.

Just ask AOL. And look at how quickly they became irrelevant due to their customer service practices.

Yes, there was a lot more going on with that, but still. It can and does happen to the largest of companies.

Without the customer, the company can not survive, period.

All it will take is for one startup to prove they care about such things and provide Cell Phone updates (regardless of Manufacturer or Parent Company) that are released in a timely manner.

[Tepid]

Stifling competition. Didn't Microsoft get in a WHOLE lot of trouble for doing that?

Didn't they pretty much get ripped apart for doing that?

Aren't they considered one of the most evil companies on the planet for doing exactly that?

Isn't the EU still going after them over IE?

Isn't China getting on MS because of exactly that?

What needs to change?

Carrier approval of ALL updates (No matter the manufacturer):

They can work with the manufacturer to provide testing and reliability data,

And guarantee that updates will be released for all devices as made available, or they don't get to sell that device.

That will lead to fewer better products on one carrier to another (reference AOL above).

Carrier Exclusives:

No carrier should be allowed to sell a device that no other carrier would not be allowed to sell as well.

Manufactures should have no problem providing all devices to all carriers regardless of Signal/Radio Type.

[Tidbits]

Tepid...

Sorry AOL didn't go under because of them trying to stifle competition...  They loss because CONSUMERS spoke with their money.  This does more than ANY regulation can ever do.  Many years ago consumers weren't afraid to talk with their money, and not with their mouths. 

Google was the one stifling competition for Wallet.  I'll say this once again.  Secure element was blocked by Google.  manufacturers are carriers needed to pay up in order to use the secure element.  Google also gave no way to apply to use the secure element.  Cyanogenmod team for example tried to make their Wallet alternative, but couldn't do the way like Wallet because...  Google wouldn't white list anyone for use of the secure element.  Which is why Isis had the secure element on a sim card to bypass that requirement.  Which is why PayPal, and Square had not wallet of their own, because they had no way to secure the data outside the secure element without writing some encryption which in turn make the app larger as well as less secure(long explanation I will forgo).  Someone argued with me that PayPal already said they had no intention on a wallet system of their own as an argument.  My response still stands today with further evidence...  PayPal is now working on their own payment system...  Right AFTER Google changed away from... the secure element and white listing...  Go figure...  Everyone is Drinking the Google-aid and they can't do evil, but there are multiple instances where Google has done evil...  Cyanogenmod team also points it out. 

Report: Microsoft, Samsung and others showing interest in Cyanogen

“Everyone in the world wants an open Android,” McMaster said. “They want to get outside of Google’s tyranny, if you will.”

You still haven't shown ANY PROOF that MS is finished with the update and Verizon is withholding the update.  The FCC will do nothing is Verizon shows it isn't finished and it is out their hands until Nokia finishes.  FCC will do NOTHING worthwhile until you can provide that proof or FCC can find that proof, but Nokia isn't forthcoming on their own devices getting updated themselves.