Seriously, VZW, WP 9 Dev Preview was just announced...

[Tidbits]

rednibkram wrote:

Manufacturers can BETA test the software on their device, this is true.  Microsoft has been doing it since Windows Phone 8.1 Developer Preview.  However this applies ONLY to the operating system, not the firmware, and this is where you are wrong.  All carriers DEMAND they be able to test firmware updates before it is 'allowed' to be released OTA.  I have already confirmed this with Verizon Corporate.  They admitted it to me..."We test the firmware to ensure any changes to the hardware of your device does not cause problems on the network.  If we allow a change on a Windows device and it causes problems on the network, that would not be fair to the Android or Apple users on our network.  We will never allow a release of firmware on our network until we can ensure it will not cause problems for other users."

HTC and Motorola are following suit behind Microsoft with the Developer Preview program, but none of them would be able to push out a FIRMWARE update without the authority of the carriers.  If Microsoft were to bypass the carriers testing and release a firmware update that caused network issues on any of the carriers, Microsoft could be sued by the carrier for damaging their network.  Even Apple has to have their firmware changes tested before it is released, it's just that Apple is allowed (because of the power they possess) to "pre-test" the firmware before they announce an iOS update.  I'm saying all the manufacturers should be granted this same "pre-testing of firmware" as Apple.

Then explain what's the difference between HTC and Nokia.  HTC doesn't use Verizon as a scape goat, and beta test their software with their users.  They also update their devices since last year in a reasonable time with each other usually within 90 days of release of the updates.  So how can HTC release software in a "timely" manner with Verizon and sooner than Verizon's best seller as WELL as their current soon to be released devices.  That AUTOMATICALLY defeats the argument...  IF they are withholding updates to get people to upgrade.  They could have withheld The HTC One update to get people to upgrade to the M8, or even the S5... Note 4 coming out next month...  Why didn't they?  Why just windows phone?  Why didn't they withhold the Motorola X update?  These are the bottom of the barrel Seriously, think about it.  ADC and HTC release the firmware with new radio firmware, and new drivers and Verizon doesn't do anything about it.  So only Microsoft will be sued?  Seriously get real for a minute.  Then HTC and Motorola would get sued as well because they are doing the EXACT thing YOU want Microsoft to do...  I get updates from HTC for my M8(Android) which just the last 2 had radio changes and also had some bluetooth changes.  So if something happens and causes network problems HTC will get sued(Based on the fact you said MS would get sued for this)?

Here's a secret...  Do you know why Carriers are subjugated to ADC?  Their software they want their users to download.  ANYONE that develops software and wants it on the iOS devices are FORCED to join ADC.  Welcome to the placebo effect again.  Like I told you before get an iOS device and join ADC and watch what happens.  Carriers will test the network while they are at it BECAUSE it's there.  HTC and Motorola has already shown you DON'T need the carriers for this...  Their respective beta programs which has been going on the past 2-3 years have shown.

Sorry all I see is a whole bunch of people want to hold Verizon for things Nokia has control over.  It's easier to blame Verizon is because they are easier to contact.  I wish you the best of luck

[rednibkram]

The difference between HTC and Nokia is the "testing phase" that Verizon demands.  Which, now you've just proven my point.  Microsoft provided the Cyan update to Verizon on July 15th, 2014 (Verizon has already admitted to this fact).  HTC's new HTC One M8 for Windows didn't get released until late August.  HTC has already released another update to the HTC One M8 while the Lumia Icon and Lumia 928 have yet to see the Cyan update.  Why?  Because, as Verizon has admitted, the Cyan firmware update is still being tested.  How can an HTC update that was given to Verizon AFTER the Cyan update was given to them, be released BEFORE the Cyan update that they are still testing?  Sounds a bit like product manipulation to me. 

And again, in regards to ADC, you are confusing software updates with firmware updates.  In the case of Verizon, Verizon Corporate has already confirmed with me that ANY firmware update MUST be tested by Verizon to ensure the changes do not create problems on their network.  Apple, HTC, Motorola, Microsoft Mobile OY (formerly Nokia), Samsung, Google etc. can upgrade/update/manipulate their software as much as they want to and can push it out to their devices for developer testing at any time.  The carriers don't really care, but (as in the case with Microsoft) will warn you that it will "void your warranty".  Downloading software from the manufacturer that has not yet been approved by Verizon is "at your own risk."

However, if there are any firmware changes (as firmware affects hardware on the device), all of the carriers DEMAND that they first be allowed to test the firmware changes on their network BEFORE they will allow it to be released to our devices.  They do this to ensure it does not create any negative impacts to the network.  This is required, not only for us customer, but because the Federal Governemnt also has contracts with these networks for services, and cannot have connectivity issues.

ADC is for software, basically "apps."  It does not necessaritly include firmware, although I won't go so far as to say it "doesn't."   Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, Sprint, they all have "network specific" apps that they want installed on our devices, and these apps are also being tested by the carriers to ensure they work on the device with the new software.  For example, since the "My Verizon" app includes access to my account, Verizon tests this app for security issues to ensure any "firmware" (hardware changes) doesn't allow the app to transmit account information via bluetooth, wifi, etc.

[#3]

rednibkram wrote:

"Since the update was Apple and could be any device maker I don't call Verizon for tech support."

And I ask "why not?"   As part of my monthly service agreement, I PAY for Tech Support.  You may CHOOSE not to call Verizon Tech Support, but that does not mean others should follow suit.  Verizon may be the quickest way to find a solution to a technical issue with the device, despite if they support the device or can do anything about it.  Verizon may have internal knowledge of a technical issue told only to them from Apple.  Or they may some problem on their network that might be causing your device not to work.  There may be an issue with your SIM card, or your account isn't set up correctly to allow your device to ring.

This is not the case. If the device worked as it was designed prior to my placing an update on it, logical reasoning would be that the UPDATE caused the problem. Not Verizon wireless. In Apples case Verizon did not even update my devices. So why would I waste the carriers resources via calling for something they probably know nothing about? The information and solutions however were at Apples Web Site. As it should be.

Just because Apple makes the device and Verizon may or may not test anything or change anything, doesn't mean Verizon is 100% free of any fault for your device not working correctly.  It may have nothing to do with your device, so why wouldn't I call Verizon first?  That's what I'm paying for.

You keep mentioning fault? Strange. It is your fault (customer) if you take a perfectly functioning device and add any update to it. YOU assume the risk, you also assume the proper functioning on the carriers network to gain access to the "Cellular and Data Network" which is all Verizon and any carrier provides. And what you actually PAY for. Nothing else. Tech support issue can be you cannot access the cell tower, or your data connection over cellular is slowed down or non functional. My first question would be " Did you recently update your device"? and once you said yes, I would refer you to the device maker who gave that update. That is fair. You have stated many times this is what tech support should do.

If, as you say, the issue isn't caused by anything Verizon has control over (i.e., network, SIM, account, etc.), then Verizon is more than capable of referring the customer to the manufacturer, again, part of their job.

See my reply above.

I can sympathize with the Verizon Tech Support personnel for the fact that they must endure thousands of complaints each day, some of which can be quite frustrating, but that is their job.  I deal with the same "complaints" each day as part of my job with the Federal Government.  If I can do it, so should they.  I'm quite sure they don't need you online here each day telling people to "stop complaining to Verizon."

My rights are what I exercise, just like you do. You keep telling folks to contact Verizon for tech support if and when you get any update. Since Verizon did not cause those issues I have the same right to tell people they don't have a right to call tech support. America is a great country.

[B33]

Tidbits this is what i read from our Local News just thought I'd add it here..

iOS 8 "h8"? Complaints over Apple's new operating system

[#5]

Ha ha funny these articles mirror the different help sites in regards to this ios 8 update.

I had loads of issues, but took my time and figured out what to do. It now works great on all i Devices.

The latest one to crop up this morning was my photos were multiplying from all my idevices. My cell phone was showing thousands of them over and over. I fixed it via connection to iTunes and removing them.

The settings for photo sharing and stream were evidently set to on. Crazy how everything was set to on that was off before. But I did not call Verizon I fixed it myself.

[B33]

Yea I seen this Article and shook my Head, I seen the Latest Verizon commercial were the guy sees the new i6, Siri starts talking to her owner he's going to trade in his phone she thinks there going for a Ride he gets to the store & shuts her off then goes inside to Trade in his i5 for a new i6 it kind of Cute..

iPhone 6 Trade in | Commercial | Verizon Wireless - YouTube

[Tidbits]

rednibkram wrote:

The difference between HTC and Nokia is the "testing phase" that Verizon demands.  Which, now you've just proven my point.  Microsoft provided the Cyan update to Verizon on July 15th, 2014 (Verizon has already admitted to this fact).  HTC's new HTC One M8 for Windows didn't get released until late August.  HTC has already released another update to the HTC One M8 while the Lumia Icon and Lumia 928 have yet to see the Cyan update.  Why?  Because, as Verizon has admitted, the Cyan firmware update is still being tested.  How can an HTC update that was given to Verizon AFTER the Cyan update was given to them, be released BEFORE the Cyan update that they are still testing?  Sounds a bit like product manipulation to me.

You are going off tangent here.  Your arguments are falling apart.  First you said they need Verizon for pretesting.  HTC and Motorola proves it doesn't need Verizon.  I beta tested the M8(WP), and I am beta testing another device on Verizon from HTC(No idea branding and model number).  This pretesting is happening with Verizon...  Now you are changing your argument because you know this is true.  Now you jump back to the update near the end of the process over pretesting.  HTC and Motorola PROVES you don't need pretesting.

And again, in regards to ADC, you are confusing software updates with firmware updates.  In the case of Verizon, Verizon Corporate has already confirmed with me that ANY firmware update MUST be tested by Verizon to ensure the changes do not create problems on their network.  Apple, HTC, Motorola, Microsoft Mobile OY (formerly Nokia), Samsung, Google etc. can upgrade/update/manipulate their software as much as they want to and can push it out to their devices for developer testing at any time.  The carriers don't really care, but (as in the case with Microsoft) will warn you that it will "void your warranty".  Downloading software from the manufacturer that has not yet been approved by Verizon is "at your own risk."

Oh no I am not confusing it.  I have been on ADC since the iPhone 3G.  You watch the change logs and you'll see which devices are finished and which are not.  At times you'll see a 3 month gap between devices.  Apple just waits to deliver their updates.  HTC replaces devices they break with their update.  You are doing them a favor, and guess what... Like I said earlier...  Nokia would rather carriers pay for it instead of themselves like Motorola and HTC have done.

However, if there are any firmware changes (as firmware affects hardware on the device), all of the carriers DEMAND that they first be allowed to test the firmware changes on their network BEFORE they will allow it to be released to our devices.  They do this to ensure it does not create any negative impacts to the network.  This is required, not only for us customer, but because the Federal Governemnt also has contracts with these networks for services, and cannot have connectivity issues.

Uh... I work for the feds.  I will tell you now....  This is wrong on so many levels.  I have already gotten into this in various threads.  You don't know how weak of an argument is this.

ADC is for software, basically "apps."  It does not necessaritly include firmware, although I won't go so far as to say it "doesn't."  Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, Sprint, they all have "network specific" apps that they want installed on our devices, and these apps are also being tested by the carriers to ensure they work on the device with the new software.  For example, since the "My Verizon" app includes access to my account, Verizon tests this app for security issues to ensure any "firmware" (hardware changes) doesn't allow the app to transmit account information via bluetooth, wifi, etc.

That's what ADC is about and I told you.  Apple puts carriers into ADC for MyVerizon, MyAccount(T-Mobile) and such has to go through their process.  They can test their apps on their current beta.  HTC and Motorola essentially does the same thing if the developer wish and join their respective beta programs.

HTC has shown being transparent of their update process.  HTC gets these "apps" or bloatware in advance, and you can see Carriers don't touch code at all and only test the update against the network.  The regulatory, and Google even test the code.  HTC also beta test their code.  They can deliver an update with 90 days of releases.  So how can HTC do it and Nokia can't.  Before saying M8 exclusive sales motivating.  Why did Verizon not withhold updates for some of their devices recently when they flashy new devices were going out from HTC, Motorola, LG and Samsung?  Wouldn't it be great for them to relock people into new contracts?  Why only windows phone when it has less than 3% when you can do that to Samsung or LG which has a larger market share?

[rednibkram]

This is not the case.  If the device worked as it was designed prior to my placing an update on it, logical reasoning would be that the UPDATE caused the problem.  Not Verizon wireless.  In Apples case Verizon did not even update my devices.  So why would I waste the carriers resources via calling for something they probably know nothing about?  The information and solutions however were at Apples Web Site, As it should be.

Read your own verbage above.  "Words like "probably" and "logical".  Nothing designating certainty.  This lack of certainty is the reason I would call Verizon.  You never know what was updated, who and in conjunction with whom.  We, as customers who are left out of the update process by both Verizon and the manufacturer, have no way of knowing what was updated and why.  Verizon may have secretly worked with Apple on some of the updates for all we know.  Verizon may actually know of something, and for us, without knowing they worked with Apple, might speculate there is no reason to ask Verizon, because "they didn't work on the update," when in fact they actually could have.

Again this goes back to lack of customer service by lack of communication to us customers from both Verizon and the manufactures.

You keep mentioning fault?  Strange.  It is your fault (customer) if you take a perfectly functioning device and add any update to it......My first question would be "Did you recently update your device?" and once you said yues, I would refer you to the device maker who gave that update.

First of all, we paying customers do not update our devices.  The manufacturer provides these update for us to install on our device and yes, we have an option of not updating, but come on man, really?  Would anyone actually say no to device improvements and additional features?  Since these updates/upgrades are provided by the manufacturer and tested by Verizon, we are well within our right to assume that there should be no defects.  If there are, then yes, we should consult with the manufacturer, but there is no reason we should be able to contact Verizon, who is supposed to have tested this update, for a "first line of action" consult.  Apparently, you agree since you stated above "My first question would be..."  Which is what I have stated all along, if Verizon is not responsible for anything, they can easily refer you to the manufacturer, but there is no hard in contacting Verizon to ensure first that there isn't a network issue, now is therer?

My rights are what I exercise...

At least on this we can agree.  We each have a right to voice our opinion, however I believe that there are a lot more people on here that would agree with my point of view.  I see no harm whatsoever in contacting Verizon for assistance before jumping to the manufacturer, if for no other reason but to ensure there isn't actually a network issue first.

[rednibkram]

Tidbits wrote:

rednibkram wrote:

You are going off tangent here.  Your arguments are falling apart.  First you said they need Verizon for pretesting.  HTC and Motorola proves it doesn't need Verizon.  I beta tested the M8(WP), and I am beta testing another device on Verizon from HTC(No idea branding and model number).  This pretesting is happening with Verizon...  Now you are changing your argument because you know this is true.  Now you jump back to the update near the end of the process over pretesting.  HTC and Motorola PROVES you don't need pretesting.

I think you should re-read my statement.  I did not say Verizon pretests the "SOFTWARE"  I said Verizon demands pretesting of the "FIRMWARE"  There is a difference between software and firmware.  Software is the OS and the apps associated with the OS.  Firmware controls the actual hardware of the device.  This is at the admission of Verizon.  It is NOT a guess from me.  Debate it with them.

And again, in regards to ADC, you are confusing software updates with firmware updates.  In the case of Verizon, Verizon Corporate has already confirmed with me that ANY firmware update MUST be tested by Verizon to ensure the changes do not create problems on their network.  Apple, HTC, Motorola, Microsoft Mobile OY (formerly Nokia), Samsung, Google etc. can upgrade/update/manipulate their software as much as they want to and can push it out to their devices for developer testing at any time.  The carriers don't really care, but (as in the case with Microsoft) will warn you that it will "void your warranty".  Downloading software from the manufacturer that has not yet been approved by Verizon is "at your own risk."

Oh no I am not confusing it.  I have been on ADC since the iPhone 3G.  You watch the change logs and you'll see which devices are finished and which are not.  At times you'll see a 3 month gap between devices.  Apple just waits to deliver their updates.  HTC replaces devices they break with their update.  You are doing them a favor, and guess what... Like I said earlier...  Nokia would rather carriers pay for it instead of themselves like Motorola and HTC have done.

I have no dispute over this as, like I said above, it regards SOFTWARE, not FIRMWARE.

However, if there are any firmware changes (as firmware affects hardware on the device), all of the carriers DEMAND that they first be allowed to test the firmware changes on their network BEFORE they will allow it to be released to our devices.  They do this to ensure it does not create any negative impacts to the network.  This is required, not only for us customer, but because the Federal Governemnt also has contracts with these networks for services, and cannot have connectivity issues.

Uh... I work for the feds.  I will tell you now....  This is wrong on so many levels.  I have already gotten into this in various threads.  You don't know how weak of an argument is this.

Great statement, now prove it!   In what way is this wrong and prove it.

ADC is for software, basically "apps."  It does not necessaritly include firmware, although I won't go so far as to say it "doesn't."  Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, Sprint, they all have "network specific" apps that they want installed on our devices, and these apps are also being tested by the carriers to ensure they work on the device with the new software.  For example, since the "My Verizon" app includes access to my account, Verizon tests this app for security issues to ensure any "firmware" (hardware changes) doesn't allow the app to transmit account information via bluetooth, wifi, etc.

That's what ADC is about and I told you.  Apple puts carriers into ADC for MyVerizon, MyAccount(T-Mobile) and such has to go through their process.  They can test their apps on their current beta.  HTC and Motorola essentially does the same thing if the developer wish and join their respective beta programs.

HTC has shown being transparent of their update process.  HTC gets these "apps" or bloatware in advance, and you can see Carriers don't touch code at all and only test the update against the network.  The regulatory, and Google even test the code.  HTC also beta test their code.  They can deliver an update with 90 days of releases.  So how can HTC do it and Nokia can't.  Before saying M8 exclusive sales motivating.  Why did Verizon not withhold updates for some of their devices recently when they flashy new devices were going out from HTC, Motorola, LG and Samsung?  Wouldn't it be great for them to relock people into new contracts?  Why only windows phone when it has less than 3% when you can do that to Samsung or LG which has a larger market share?

You and I and everyone else can speculate the reasoning behind the delay and I wouldn't want to make that assumption, but if Verizon would provide feedback to it's customers as to the reason for the delay, we customers wouldn't even be having this discussion, now would we?

[#10]

When I update anything, I read what it is supposed to update. Any reasonable person would not just load any old thing on their device. That is down right foolish.

And now you are stating

First of all, we paying customers do not update our devices.  The manufacturer provides these update for us to install on our device and yes, we have an option of not updating, but come on man, really?  Would anyone actually say no to device improvements and additional features?

But yet you have been saying Verizon has to release the update. So Verizon is releasing the update for the device makers to send to your device? Oh wait its Verizon sending it to the devices Over the Air for the device makers? Or is it a little of both?

And then there is the constant complaints of when will Verizon tell us what they intend to do with the update? I find that reasonable, but as a separate corporation they don't have to tell us nothing. They sell us service to the cellular and data network. And tech support for issues when we as customers cannot do these things.(Connect to the cellular and data network with a functional device)

Verizon is not in charge of our WiFi, Bluetooth, NFC, Beaming, camera taking bad photos, GPS Functions unless we buy their GPS services, or how we change the color of the screens. That is squarely on the device owner and the device makers.

Verizon Wireless does not make cell phones.

We as customers cannot expect updates on any basis. If you get one, you and the other 25 complainers will get it. And those hundreds of thousands of others that exist in your mind.

Like I said if it comes it will come. Constantly yelling about where it is will do absolutely no good.

Have you noticed Verizon wireless has not replied to any of these windows phone complaint posts out side of directing you to an email sign up page? Wonder and keep wondering....and wondering why.