Re: Lumia Cyan with Windows Phone 8.1 roll-out starts today (7/15/2015)
elro
Newbie

Tthe 930 and Icon are the exact same device except that the 930 uses CDMA2000 instead of UTS, which means they are the exact same hardware, and naturally will use the exact same firmware and drivers. Literally the same phone(s), however the OS version number should always be the same anyway if it's the same OS.. the build number being the same should be expected because the OS is the same OS.. the device you load it on is irrelevant just like it is for computers. Don't forget that smartphones are nothing more or less than computers that we use as phones, just like tablets are just like notebooks and desktops, but in different shapes. A computer is a computer, and an OS is an OS (Windows 8.1 is the same build number no matter what device it loads on, because the OS doesn't care what hardware you load it on). Again, I'm not so sure you do know.. because the OS version has nothing to do with drivers at all...

As for Verizon having a more complex network.. ATT doesn't use exclusive tower-hopping like Verizon (which is part of why their network is slower) and opts instead to share fiber-optic backbones in some areas (which means more switching, which means more delays). Verizon bounces all cellular traffic tower-to-tower throughout their entire network, which means no transferring to different network mediums and all the overhead that builds up from each of those transfers back and forth (tower-to-tower is far more simple to negotiate, as the towers can pre-authenticate since they are always in range of one another which also makes them loads faster). Verizon is also running much more powerful hardware on their towers to maintain the substantially higher bandwidth needs of their substantially faster network. For instance, Verizon XLTE is as much as four times as fast as ATT 4G LTE in the exact same spots http://www.gottabemobile.com/2014/05/19/htc-one-m8-prime-details-emerge-in-huge-leak/ .

Verizon has more advanced/capable/powerful offerings because they don't have to share hands in the moneypot for upgrades like ATT either (Verizon FIOS has it's own separate everything except actual brand differentiation) does for instance between their Uverse, Fiber-backbones, and Cellular systems. Look at the 4G coverage from Verizon versus ATT.. Verizon beats them on coverage and speed. Verizon's network provides better service to the same devices as ATT (one example being the iPhone and Galaxy phones, since there are few others that are actually effectively identical across carriers). You can see some of that at http://broadbandmap.gov/, while you can also check each providers' coverage maps.

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Re: Lumia Cyan with Windows Phone 8.1 roll-out starts today (7/15/2015)
iKnowPhones
Contributor - Level 1

You really need to stop talking to people like they are clueless. I have been told by someone that works at MS that newer updates in the preview program, so newer OS versions contained improved drivers to improve performance and stability. You cannot directly compare our phones to PCs. I can install new drivers specifically for the GPU in a computer, you can’t do that for our phones.

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Re: Re: Lumia Cyan with Windows Phone 8.1 roll-out starts today (7/15/2015)
elro
Newbie

Updated drivers only applies to the Lumia devices, as Microsoft manufactured the Lumia series via their subsidiary Nokia. If you don't compare a phone to PC's, you're doing it wrong.. they're just small computers (always have been). Windows 8 for instance, doesn't even bother much with more than generic  drivers unless there are special features involved (and yes, you can install drivers for the GPU on any device if the OS allows it, it just so happens that most phones and tablets don't because they are systems-on-a-chip that are manufactured for an individual phone/tablet only and are typically loaded with very user-control reduced Operating Systems). However, a snapdragon phone can typically use the same drivers/firmware as another one in the same series so long as the OS is the same. I'm not trying to hammer anyone in particular.. but I can't stand error that is purported as truth =\. Device driver | Define Device driver at Dictionary.com. Drivers are hardware and OS specific. Computer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for the developer preview, there is indeed a newer version of WP 8.1 available (WP 8.1 update) but that doesn't mean you necessarily have it (or that either of your devices don't have it). =P Just like Windows 8 computers don't automatically have Windows 8.1 just because it's available, you either have only 8.1 with the update, or you don't have it at all if the versions are the same build. That said, as I mentioned in my last post - the OS version is always the same if we are talking the same OS version.. the drivers are only relevant so much as the OS actually uses them (which on integrated devices isn't much for most things, hence why firmware updates are so important). Drivers are a half-step between firmware functionality and OS functionality. They are largely efficiency routines anymore (which as your contact in MS mentioned, would make sense for improving performance.. not so much stability unless the old drivers were faulty though).

You can't install your own GPU drivers in Chromebooks that doesn't make them not computer does it >.<? The Motorola Razr I uses the same CPU/GPU as some netbooks, notebooks, and tablets.. does that make it not a computer because you can't install a driver? No.. it doesn't =P, it's a computer just like notebooks and tablets are computers. Tablet is a form factor, not a type of device just like Smartphone, Notebook, Ultrabook, Netbook, Desktop, Workstation, Server, Mainframe, and Supercomputers are. They're just different shapes and implementations of computers. What you are referencing is a limitation of the Operating System on your phone, not something that relates to what it is at all. If you really wanted, you could install Android on your phone (you can install the same Windows on the Razr I as you have on your desktop if you really wanted.. although it would run like garbage XD).

I do this for a living, servicing and supporting thousands of devices with all kinds of shapes, sizes, functions, and purposes with a wide variety of software betwixt them all. I'm not trying to be condescending.. I'm trying to provide useful, accurate information. Smartphones are the epitomy of a PC (Personal computer | Define Personal computer at Dictionary.com) as they fall exactly into the definition of what a PC is. Phones don't allow users to install drivers and such.. because carriers have closed networks, and allowing users to modify the OS on their device may jeopardize or compromise more than just their own device.. there's literally no good reason to allow users to do that with their devices as far as carriers are concerned. Phones are limited by the software placed on them and that's about it. The same hardware runs tablets (some of which also run the same Operating System your notebook or desktop computer uses). Companies that make hardware don't differentiate cell phones from other form factors. Their hardware is typically categorized for mobile/portable devices (smartphones, tablets, and notebooks/ultrabooks/netbooks), desktops/workstations, commercial grade, or industrial grade. All of the form factors I mentioned above use ARM, X86, or X64 architecture CPUs that all do the exact same thing in different ways. The only noteworthy difference is the level of capability each option has compared to the others. Smiley Happy

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Re: Lumia Cyan with Windows Phone 8.1 roll-out starts today (7/15/2015)
elro
Newbie

I suppose in some ways you are technically correct about T-Mobile, although mostly just because they have the most hybridized network (using WiMax, CDMA, LTE, and other options all at once.. but that's also part of why their network isn't in the same realm as ATT and Verizon) ^.^. So I'll give ya that one Tidbit, touche!

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Re: Lumia Cyan with Windows Phone 8.1 roll-out starts today (7/15/2015)
iKnowPhones
Contributor - Level 1

I'm done talking to you. All you care to do is miss the point and talk down to me as if I don't know what I'm talking about.

I know what a driver is. Your twisting my words when I mentioned PC earlier, as in Windows PC, not chromebook. Also when I mentioned updates to the OS in the preview program, I wasn't talking about Update 1, I was talking about a regular update to the 8.1 preview. You care too much to prove that you're right for you to even understand the points I'm making. It's fucking annoying.

Sent from my Windows Phone

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Re: Re: Lumia Cyan with Windows Phone 8.1 roll-out starts today (7/15/2015)
elro
Newbie

I wasn't twisting your words.. I addressed exactly what you meant when I brought up the Motorola Razr I. It runs the *exact same hardware* as some tablets and computers running the same Windows your Windows PC does. Erego, it can and does run the exact same Windows as your Windows PC does (bringing up Chromebooks was just an example of why PCs in a more general term applies to phones, as the difference between many Chromebooks and Windows computers is just the software that is loaded and nothing more). It's the same thing, there is no difference otherwise besides the shape and size of the box they put it in. I care about dispelling error, whether it be yours or another persons, it's nothing personal. If you're wrong you're wrong, and if you're right you're right.. I really dont' care if someone finds it offensive to be called out on an error (even if it's not originally a huge deal.. it wouldn't ever become one if the other party didn't respond by escalating to the others' comment(s)). I care about accuracy and nothing more, because that's what causes rumors, causes trouble, and otherwise creates all kinds of totally unnecessary, wasteful, and otherwise squandered expenditures of time.

Yes, I care about proving I'm right.. but only if I'm actually right.. because it's not about me.. it's about eliminating error(s). Errors cause unnecessary problems, and while you may not take it that way I am actually trying to help via clarification. Sometimes, that means I'm going to have to correct some things.. don't take it personally because that is not the intent. The difference between doing it properly, and breaking very expensive things is very small in my line of work so I cannot tolerate much room for error. I explained myself fairly clearly (or so I thought) about firmware and drivers, the differences between them.. why a device would use one versus the other, and even what they would be used for. Your response was largely griping that I missed your point (when what I really did was refute your assertion with a more complete argument) and fussed that my correcting you while suggesting that you didn't seem to fully understand certain things was annoying. I apologize for being annoying, but frankly I'm not sorry.

If you moved from WP 8 to WP 8.1, there's no record on the Changelog that any performance or stability enhancements (or anything of the sort even) were made Windows Phone 8 update history | Windows Phone How-to (United States) . All performance and stability improvements actually show up in the Changelog for the Lumia Cyan update Firmware change logs for Nokia Lumia (Windows Phone) devices - Nokia Developer Wiki as I mentioned would be the case before. While the Cyan update is just Firmware, it comes bundled as a package download for distribution with the 8.1 OS update as well since Cyan is considered a pre-requisite update to the 8.1 update (though they are separate as you know, since you can get 8.1 directly from Microsoft without Cyan, but it is pretty much purely a feature upgrade with known issues that are resolved with the actual performance and stability update/fix that is the Cyan firmware update for Lumia devices). Basically, Verizon is taking a long time in part because Windows Phone is not a large market chunk.. but also because we're literally talking about a total overhaul of *all* the software on Lumia devices to push out that update.. that is a ton of changes and possibilities for things to go wrong, it takes a long time to test when you change everything all at once like that no matter how big a market segment is.

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Re: Lumia Cyan with Windows Phone 8.1 roll-out starts today (7/15/2015)
iKnowPhones
Contributor - Level 1

You’re purposely being obtuse to the points I’m making, that’s what I’m saying. I know that the term “PC” is a more general term, but when we’re talking about WP and Windows products, why the fuck would I include Chromebooks or any other device into the mix?

I know what I’m talking about, you’re just being anal for the sake of sounding like a know it all. I’m being very general with what I’m saying, but what I’m saying isn’t incorrect.

There were tweets from Joe Belfoire about the updates to 8.1 preview providing better performance and bug fixes. There were posts from members of the WP team on Neogaf about improved drivers in updates to the 8.1 preview. I understand that there are Nokia phone related drivers in Cyan, but I’m talking about the OS, not the firmware. I’m also not talking about 8.1 Update 1. Do you even have a WP? If you were in the preview for 8.1, you would know exactly what I’m talking about.

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Re: Lumia Cyan with Windows Phone 8.1 roll-out starts today (7/15/2015)
iKnowPhones
Contributor - Level 1

You’re impossible.  So you’re saying there are no drivers in WP8.1, the team was lying and blowing smoke by saying this, right?

Also I don’t understand why you’re hung up on change logs when I never said I got my information from any change logs.

Message edited as required by Verizon Wireless Terms of Service.

Message was edited by: Admin Moderator

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Re: Lumia Cyan with Windows Phone 8.1 roll-out starts today (7/15/2015)
Customer1234567
Contributor - Level 1

(quote)

This isn’t entirely accurate.  The dev preview should have the same drivers as non-Lumia devices.  So for example, when the ATIV phones get 8.1 from Verizon, the version number of the OS should be the same as those in the dev preview program.  Nokia just takes it a step further with driver optimization for specific hardware included in the firmware instead of the core OS.  Basically drivers are included in both the OS update and firmware update.  Those in the OS update should not be old, they should be as current as can be.

(end quote).

The DP is the full "SOFTWARE" package up to final stats, your right. What needs to be addressed is fixed in firmware (hardware issues/features, battery life issues, heating issues, etc). This will make the phone better and run smoother with better battery life.

Not like my Nokia ICON....If I use it more than 5 min, it's hot to the touch, If I use it 7-10 min, it's very uncomfortable to hold, any longer, I cant hold it any more. This is a new thing with the DP.... It can only really be addressed by a firmware update (funny, not effecting people with the 930)...

I need this fix now but, personally I hope they do not release Cyan and just go to Denim.... 4K video recording and always listening Cortana (just say "Hey Cortana" and she will wake up with out touching your phone).

I guess I we have to wait another week or 2 and maybe get DENIM, I think all will be forgiven in my eyes, as long as we get it before the other carriers do....(AT&T mainly)

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Re: Lumia Cyan with Windows Phone 8.1 roll-out starts today (7/15/2015)
iKnowPhones
Contributor - Level 1

Supposedly MS will push cyan out to people running on the dev preview the next few weeks.

http://wmpoweruser.com/lumia-cyan-coming-to-all-developer-preview-devices-within-3-weeks/

Sent from my Windows Phone

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