Re: Lumia Cyan with Windows Phone 8.1 roll-out starts today (7/15/2015)
Customer1234567
Contributor - Level 1

Who ever says Verizon DOES NOT have the update really does not know what is going on. Microsoft released to all carriers and OEMS at the same time. This gives everyone time to test it and update the firmware for their network with the suggested firmware fixes from the OEM (Nokia, HTC.. etc)

I've been with Verizon for 20+ years now, This type of delay is very common with Verizon, besides the iPhone who strong arms carriers to release it on a day, Android and Windows Phone users should be used to this by now. I remember from old flip phones (moto anyone?) with feature add-ons and bug fixes, Verizon was ALWAYS last to update their devices. This is nothing new.

Also, with newer devices, Microsoft clearly said that all devices will get 18 months of support from release(look it up if you don't believe me). With this being said, we should get updates on the ICON/929 and the HTC one well into 2016. We also have another issue, a good 10% of the Windows Phone marketplace has had apps updated for Windows Phone 8.1, a lot of new apps will only run on 8.1 and will NOT run on 8.0.

The only thing that I can see is Verizon does not care that much about updates, they made their money off you and do not care. When you have global carriers like AT&T who have released Cyan for almost all their phones by now, it's just a major disappointment that Verizon has not released it for Verizon's flagship WP device, the Nokia ICON. They have had PLENTY of time to do their testing and bug fixes.

I'm sure it's coming soon but, like normal, Verizon only cares about their shareholders and their bottom line, Not what is important to their current customers. Get used to it...

If you want quicker updates, change over to AT&T, with Windows Phone and most other devices, they seem to care about supporting Windows Phone as Verizon is still questionable at this point.

Re: Lumia Cyan with Windows Phone 8.1 roll-out starts today (7/15/2015)
Not applicable

https://www.ptcrb.com/vendor/complete/complete_request.cfm

I would think the list above is a better place to start.

Microsoft, HTC, Verizon etc. Are listed. Its all jumbled to me.

Too many codes to figure out

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Re: Lumia Cyan with Windows Phone 8.1 roll-out starts today (7/15/2015)
iKnowPhones
Contributor - Level 1

This isn’t entirely accurate. The dev preview should have the same drivers as non-Lumia devices. So for example, when the ATIV phones get 8.1 from Verizon, the version number of the OS should be the same as those in the dev preview program. Nokia just takes it a step further with driver optimization for specific hardware included in the firmware instead of the core OS. Basically drivers are included in both the OS update and firmware update. Those in the OS update should not be old, they should be as current as can be.

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Re: Re: Lumia Cyan with Windows Phone 8.1 roll-out starts today (7/15/2015)
Bruce523
Enthusiast - Level 2

I agree with you and I too have been with Verizon for a really long time (perhaps too long - my son switched to AT&T but he is not a WP user).

What I decided to do is buy another phone on eBay  (Samsung S5) which is where I get the vast majority of my phones. I have my Icon still connected to WiFi to get updates and will wait for another few weeks and decide what my go forward plan is because once the iPhone 6 comes out VZW will give even less support (if that is possible - what is less than 0) to the Icon and other Windows Phones. I think that this is more political than technical and VZW does not have a vested interest in seeing Microsoft succeed (Comcast is tied to Microsoft and that makes them the enemy for Verizon)! Sure they try to act like they care about Windows Phones but they really don't care about Windows Phones at all - they would love to see them fail. They are all about the iPhone and sucking up to Apple. They only want a place holder for Windows Phones to appease customers asking for them and to be positioned to jump on the WP bandwagon if/when the WP really takes off. According to Gartner that won't be until 2015 4th quarter.

It is a real shame because the Windows Phone are fast, easy to use, and the Nokia phones in particular are built with the best quality hardware in the industry. It is really unfortunate that we might not ever see the Cyan release which is needed to get the full benefits from the Microsoft 8.1, e.g., improved camera features, ability to track steps in the fitness app, 5.1 sound, and much more! The design of a WP is simplistic like the iPhone so I wouldn't be surprized if Apple is also incentivizing VZW to thwart the growth of the WP market...

Take care...

Bruce P.

Re: Lumia Cyan with Windows Phone 8.1 roll-out starts today (7/15/2015)
Tepid
Contributor - Level 1

That is called Anti-Competitive practices, aka. Monopolizing the industry.

This is not allowed. If they (VZW and Apple/Google) are found to be doing this, they can be sued.

It really depends on just how many are affected and actually care.

If it's only a few hundred, forget it, we are out of luck. Although that shouldn't matter.

Apple can not incentivize any company to do anything against another company.

This is what Microsoft got in so much trouble for in the past, and in some areas, today, albeit, unfounded.

EU and IE comes to mind.

The update will most likely come, just not as soon as it should.

If the update is never pushed out, yes, this can be seen as an anti-competitive issue.

However, they would argue that if you don't like it, there are other carriers you can go to.

The only way it would be seen otherwise, is if they were doing it with other company phones (iPhone.Blackberry,Android, etc.) as well, not just WP.

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Re: Lumia Cyan with Windows Phone 8.1 roll-out starts today (7/15/2015)
Tidbits
Legend

iKnowPhones wrote:

This isn’t entirely accurate.  The dev preview should have the same drivers as non-Lumia devices.  So for example, when the ATIV phones get 8.1 from Verizon, the version number of the OS should be the same as those in the dev preview program.  Nokia just takes it a step further with driver optimization for specific hardware included in the firmware instead of the core OS.  Basically drivers are included in both the OS update and firmware update.  Those in the OS update should not be old, they should be as current as can be.

Nope that is correct...  Notice you said "should", but should is not an absolute.  You said it yourself when you separated firmware, and OS update.  If they were in fact one and the same then it shouldn't matter, but the underlying thing is...  Since MS makes their code proprietary and so does manufacturers you can't say for 100% they are the same because you can't look at the code.

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Re: Lumia Cyan with Windows Phone 8.1 roll-out starts today (7/15/2015)
qarl0s
Newbie

And here we are, still waiting for the Update.

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Re: Lumia Cyan with Windows Phone 8.1 roll-out starts today (7/15/2015)
elro
Newbie

(Original Quote)

This isn’t entirely accurate.  The dev preview should have the same drivers as non-Lumia devices.  So for example, when the ATIV phones get 8.1 from Verizon, the version number of the OS should be the same as those in the dev preview program.  Nokia just takes it a step further with driver optimization for specific hardware included in the firmware instead of the core OS.  Basically drivers are included in both the OS update and firmware update.  Those in the OS update should not be old, they should be as current as can be.

(End Quote)


This is patently false and demonstrates you don't understand what drivers do and what they are for. Drivers are hardware-specific instructions for the OS to tell the software how the hardware is designed to run, which means that the only things that should use the same drivers are things that are virtually identical to one another (which non-Lumia and Lumia devices are clearly not). While some components are shared, that hardly applies across the board, just as it doesn't in tablets or notebooks (phones are just smaller versions of the exact same equipment). Firmware = the equivalent to BIOS for simple and SOC (system-on-a-chip) devices, and any errors can/will significantly disrupt functionality. The carriers operate their cellular networks differently from one another too (remember LTE versus non-LTE when 4G service came out? that's a simple example). Verizon does not run the same everything that other carriers do (in fact, aside from Sprint and T-Mobile to a lesser degree, almost everyone uses their own proprietary systems in/on their networks) which is why their cellular system is drastically faster than most of the other carriers (including ATT).

Verizon uses a much more complex system than the others do to a large degree, they have more to test and verify will operate properly, so their testing will naturally take longer. ATT is still using similar equipment to what they were using in 2010.. it's easy to test on a simple system, so of course they released the update first. All in all, the Firmware is almost certainly what is causing the holdup.. because Verizon has to make sure that the devices that receive the update to Firmware don't suddenly get terrible battery life, lousy cellular signal, spotty connection issues, or any number of things like that (phones are very complex for their size, hence how incredibly expensive they are to buy outright).

Could Verizon get it done sooner? Almost certainly they could, but they have to look at numbers and prioritize accordingly.. as long as WP users as a quantity are few in number, they will be prioritized after those that have a larger representation. There is not a single thing wrong with that at all, it's not somehow malicious.. it's simply Verizon doing what any business ought to do, which is prioritize taking care of the largest segments of their business first and working their way down the list. I have 2 Lumia Icons and got my Wife a Lumia 920 a year or so ago.. of course I want the update.. but I'm not going to pitch a fit because I can't get it from Verizon right now. =P I'm an IT pro, I understand the complexity involved in good testing.. it's not an overnight thing.. like, ever. The difference between ATT and Verizon? ATT probably did an awful test (very minimal, hardly comprehensive), didn't test at all, or flat out just pushed it out as soon as they got distribution set up (which from the time it took them, sounds like the most likely answer). Personally, I'll be happy to get the update period.. if I want the software update to 8.1, I'll go install it and get the Cyan update when it comes out.. it's not that big of a deal since we can do it for free anyhow. The only thing that would be nice, is if Nokia would offer the Cyan update directly instead of being forced to go through the carrier(s).

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Re: Lumia Cyan with Windows Phone 8.1 roll-out starts today (7/15/2015)
iKnowPhones
Contributor - Level 1

So if what I said was false, why did the OS number of the 930 match the same OS number I had on my Icon in the Dev preview? The firmware didn’t match because I’m still on Black while the 930 launched with Cyan. I know exactly what a driver is and what it does.

I also understand about how WP is a low priority for Verizon, I’ve been saying that all along. That still doesn’t mean I have to like it nor does it make it good customer support. WP would be a smaller market for other carriers too but they are at least releasing the Cyan update to their phones.

As for your claim that Verizon has a much more complex system than the others, sorry I can’t believe it unless you have some proof supporting this.

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Re: Lumia Cyan with Windows Phone 8.1 roll-out starts today (7/15/2015)
Tidbits
Legend

iKnowPhones wrote:

So if what I said was false, why did the OS number of the 930 match the same OS number I had on my Icon in the Dev preview?  The firmware didn’t match because I’m still on Black while the 930 launched with Cyan.  I know exactly what a driver is and what it does.

I also understand about how WP is a low priority for Verizon, I’ve been saying that all along.  That still doesn’t mean I have to like it nor does it make it good customer support.  WP would be a smaller market for other carriers too but they are at least releasing the Cyan update to their phones.

As for your claim that Verizon has a much more complex system than the others, sorry I can’t believe it unless you have some proof supporting this.

I said in another thread they were different.  You just said it yourself they are different. I said the DP uses the older firmware...  Just because that is working right doesn't mean they are finished because... Cyan portion is being worked on, and because of that it needs Qualcomm approval as well as FCC approval once completed to even move forward.

T-Mobile actually has the more up to date system(and complex system) than any other carrier.  The problem...  They just don't have to coverage.