Why would Verizon start charging an upgrade fee?

[#1]

cjayosburn wrote:

Verizon Wireless should just stick to giving us a free or discounted phone, with no upgrade fee, in return for us continuing to spend thousands of dollars a year on your service. 

That's the entitlement attitude I'm talking about. Verizon is under ZERO obligation to offer you ANY kind of discount free or otherwise. Where do you get that you're entitled to a 100% free phone? And frankly if you can't deal with that then there are other providers out there.

Also no one says you have to move to Share Everything nor do you have to lose unlimited data.

[cjayosburn]

My assumption is that you work for Verizon Wireless, Brian68, which is fine.  Calling my comments the "entitlement attitude you are talking about," sounds like it was meant to offend me.  I have become used to being rewarded for my loyalty.  This attitude was fostered by my previous cellular carrier and by my new one, Verizon wireless.  The phones they sell are only meant to last about two years, at which point they give us a discount or a free phone to renew our contract, which is where the real profits are.  Just using my own account as an example, Verizon Wireless will be getting an additional $240-300 per year (now multiply that by the number of customers in the Verizon Wireless network).

Free or discounted phones are also a boon for Verizon Wireless in another way:  all of that bloatware that they package on a new phone makes them a ton of money.

Had the $30 fee been per account instead of per line, none of us would have balked.  In fact, if they would have just come out and said "hey, we just want to make more money for our shareholders," most of us would have not balked.  This is, after all, pure greed on the part of the carrier.

<< Comments removed to comply with >>

And, just so you know, when I check my upgrade options, the only option available is the "share everything" plan, which takes away unlimited data.  It is the only plan listed on the Verizon Wireless website. 

Message was edited by: Verizon Moderator

[#3]

cjayosburn wrote:

My assumption is that you work for Verizon Wireless, Brian68, which is fine.  Calling my comments the "entitlement attitude you are talking about," sounds like it was meant to offend me.  I have become used to being rewarded for my loyalty.  This attitude was fostered by my previous cellular carrier and by my new one, Verizon wireless.  The phones they sell are only meant to last about two years, at which point they give us a discount or a free phone to renew our contract, which is where the real profits are.  Just using my own account as an example, Verizon Wireless will be getting an additional $240-300 per year (now multiply that by the number of customers in the Verizon Wireless network).

Free or discounted phones are also a boon for Verizon Wireless in another way:  all of that bloatware that they package on a new phone makes them a ton of money.

Had the $30 fee been per account instead of per line, none of us would have balked.  In fact, if they would have just come out and said "hey, we just want to make more money for our shareholders," most of us would have not balked.  This is, after all, pure greed on the part of the carrier.

A) Nope don't work for Verizon never have never will. I don't own any Verizon stock either. Just because I don't jump on the hate train, doesn't mean I work for Verizon. Can I assume you work for at&t or Sprint or T-mobile because of your posts?

B) You said I have become used to being rewarded for my loyalty.

That's the definition of entitlement.

ENTITLEMENT: belief that one is deserving of or entitled to certain privileges

So where was I wrong in my assessment?

C) You still get a discount after 2 years that hasn't changed. Discounts are between 62-95% even with the upgrade fee.

D) Your statement that phones are online designed or last 2 years is your OPINION.

E) Just using my own account as an example, Verizon Wireless will be getting an additional $240-300 per year.

Ok and if you get a $650 phone for $200 Verizon is out $450.

F) Had the $30 fee been per account instead of per line, none of us would have balked.

Since when has Verizon don't something per ACCOUNT? Are you upgrades done PER ACCOUNT? no. Are your contracts done PER ACCOUNT? Nope. No doubt that if they did do it per account then people on single line accounts would complain they are paying the same $30 that people who have 5 lines pay and how unfair that was. And they'd be right.

G) In fact, if they would have just come out and said "hey, we just want to make more money for our shareholders," most of us would have not balked.

Really? You balked because of the REASON they came out with for the fee? The REASON makes all the difference? That's like the wife that gets mad when the husband doesn't wash the dishes and so finally he washes them but she's still mad because he didn't WANT to wash the dishes.

I agree that the "the fee is for training" excuse is lame. Unfortunately Verizon feels a needs to add bull hockey like that because because too many people still don't get they are still getting an over 60% discount and that a $650 phone actually does cost Verizon $650. Since FACTS don't work on these people maybe lame excuses will. At least that was their thinking.

H) This is, after all, pure greed on the part of the carrier.

Verizon is business. Business exists to make a profit. I assume you have a job. If the company you work for didn't make a profit you would not have a job. Is the company you work for ripping off customers for not providing it's products or service for AT COST? Is the company you work for "greedy" for trying to make a profit?

The fact is if you think Verizon's prices are too high and you do not like their "greedy" attitude then there are other carriers you can do business with and that's really the best way to show your displeasure with Verizon. Not posting on a customer to customer forum. Trust me if Verizon LOST 5 million net customers in the next year instead of gaining 5 million net customers like they did in 2012 they would figure out why that is and make adjustments. Over 99% of Verizon customers stay with Verizon each quarter and Verizon also gains more customers than they lose each quarter so they have no reason to change a thing.

[cjayosburn]

I have no desire to argue with you, Brian68, as obviously we will never agree on much.  I just want to clarify a point or two.  I do not work for any telephone company.  I did, at one point, work for USWest.  I do not work for a greedy company, I work for a non-profit whose mission is to serve our community.  I did, though, consider some of my previous employer's desire for profit to be greed, and have held more than one supervisor to task for dishonesty towards employees and customers. 

What you call entitlement was fostered by the cellular carriers, we have come to expect it as that is the way it was always done. 

What I call greed is indeed an opinion, based on the following:  Verizon Wireless paid a less than retail price for my Droid X and gave it to me at no charge.  Pretty simple concept.  The wholesale price of the phone is an expense that can be written off.  When that said Droid X was given to me I would bet money that the RETAIL PRICE of that phone was written off to a line item, so in essence, Verizon gets to count that phone as an expense TWICE.  There is nothing illegal about this, and it is a common accounting practice in many industries.  Not many of us will have issues with this concept, but let the government tax that profit and then the dividend to the shareholders and people will cry foul.  In addition to getting two options to write off the same piece of equipment, they make money on all of the bloat that is ever-present on their smartphones.

And no, saying that technology (in any form from cellular phones to laptops, to blenders) crap out after a certain period of time is not an opinion.  The term given to this concept is "Functional Obsolescence."  Speaking from my own personal experience with the phones on my account:

1st-Samsung flip phone (and no, I do not remember the model, it was eight years ago).  This phone was purchased in April and was upgradable 20 months later.  22 months (give or take) later, the screen died, best option was to upgrade.

2nd-another Samsung (the one that flipped in two directions and had a pull keyboard).  This was a truly great phone, until just about two years after I got it, when the buttons started falling off.

3rd-Blackberry Storm-Not the best phone, lousy OS and lots of other bugs but it was a first generation phone and I got along with this just fine.  A month before the upgrade, both of the Blackberry Storms on the account saw the batteries swell.  On one the screen became unresponsive and on the other the power button crapped out.

My current phone is a Droid X (and there are actually two of these on the account).  One has buttons falling off...the camera button and the volume button and the other has already been replaced as it just quit coming on.  The replacement phone was refurbished, and now that it is nearly two years old, I am having problems with the micro usb port...it takes an act of congress to get the thing to start charging.

You can call it my opinion, but now that it is an opinion rooted in personal experience.

I am offended at your insinuation that everybody that refuses to drink the kool-aid is lame and deserves to be lied to and placated.   I do not agree with this upgrade fee and have every right to air my opinion. 

I can full well understand how Verizon Wireless continues to gain new customers.  They are the best carrier in many parts of the country.  In fact, I do have other choices in carriers.  I live in a rural area, though, and Verizon is the only real choice.  I would be willing to bet that most of the 99% you speak of stay with Verizon Wireless for the same reason I do:  they are the lesser of several evils.

[#5]

cjayosburn wrote:

What I call greed is indeed an opinion, based on the following:  Verizon Wireless paid a less than retail price for my Droid X and gave it to me at no charge.  Pretty simple concept. 

Just to be honest I did not read most of  what you wrote but I will address the quoted apt.

Verizon does pay full price for the phones. Trust me Apple gets $650 for every Iphone5 from Verizon. In fact Verizon is required to buy a certain amount of Iphones. So if Verizon doesn't sell all those Iphones they are stuck with inventory. As I said this is something you need to bring up with the phone manufacturers.

Regardless Verizon is under no obligation to give you a free phone every 20 months or 2 years or whenever. T-mobile is soon ditching subsided phones altogether. It doesn't matter what companies USED to do. Verizon USED to charge $500 per GB for data. Want to go back to that because that's what they USED to do? McDonald's used to sell Big Macs for 50 cents. Should I protest McDonald's and demand 50 cent Big Macs because they USED to sell them for that? Things change. The ones that can't deal with that, well life is going to be very hard for them over the next 20, 30, 40 years.

[rcschnoor]

cjayosburn wrote:

What you call entitlement was fostered by the cellular carriers, we have come to expect it as that is the way it was always done. And since they have stopped this practice, you will come to no longer expect it.

And no, saying that technology (in any form from cellular phones to laptops, to blenders) crap out after a certain period of time is not an opinion.  The term given to this concept is "Functional Obsolescence."  Speaking from my own personal experience with the phones on my account:... Obviously some people are harder on their phones than others. Speaking from MY OWN personal experience, my phones easily last 2+ years before they are no longer functioning. I actually have a drawer full of perfectly working phones after upgrading to newer models. I routinely give these out to people who are not as careful with their phones as I am, and I am by no means what I would call careful with my phones. My wife, on the other hand, refuses to upgrade until a phone is on its last legs and is why she had her last BB for 4+ years before she finally upgraded to the TBolt almost 2 yrs ago and it is still going strong. She has been eligible for an upgrade for awhile now, yet she has no plans to upgrade any time soon. I have been purchasing cell phones now for 20 years(probably 20+ phones during that period) and have only had 2 need replacing before 2 years. One because I slipped on the ice, fell on the phone and the phone was in multiple pieces. Obviously my fault, nothing to do with the phone. The other because the phone froze and could not get it to reboot. It was replaced under warranty the next day. No problems with the replacement for the next 1.5 yrs until I upgraded. Obviously, "Functional Obsolescence" is subjective and not necessarily a given.

You can call it my opinion, but now that it is an opinion rooted in personal experience.

I am offended at your insinuation that everybody that refuses to drink the kool-aid is lame and deserves to be lied to and placated.   I do not agree with this upgrade fee and have every right to air my opinion. Opinion noted. I also am not a fan of the upgrade fee. However, it seems to be the way things are being done now and as you have previously said, people will come to expect it.

I can full well understand how Verizon Wireless continues to gain new customers.  They are the best carrier in many parts of the country.  In fact, I do have other choices in carriers.  I live in a rural area, though, and Verizon is the only real choice.  I would be willing to bet that most of the 99% you speak of stay with Verizon Wireless for the same reason I do:  they are the lesser of several evils. As is the same in SEVERAL other businesses.

[cjayosburn]

If you're not going to read the whole post, why bother to respond at all.  We have gotten a bit off topic here, so bottom line is this:  I do not agree with the upgrade fee, nor do I agree with VZW's explanation of the fee.  I would have never even gotten onto this thread, though, if I had not found the comments of NickB to be a bit condescending and borderline rude.  I feel that there were many other ways the VZW could have collected an additional $30 per line that would have had a lot of us complaining less.

While I disagree with your assertion that VZW pays full retail for an Iphone, that would just be my opinion as i have never read any of the contracts between Apple and VZW.  Of course, the price of an IPhone matters little to me, I prefer Android.

Just for the record, I only disagreed with the fee. I never said I would ditch my carrier because of it.  I have every right to disagree with the fee and to comment on it.

[cjayosburn]

You are right, in two years this fee will be a given, and few of us will expect any reward for our continued loyalty. 

Just for the record, here, I am not hard on my phones.  I am, if anything, overly cautious.  I dropped a BB Storm from the running board of my car and shattered the screen; after paying full price for a replacement I considered it a lesson learned.  Even before the shattered screen, though, I was always very cautious with my phone. 

I used the term "Functional Obsolescence," which was an error.  I was speaking of "Planned Obsolescence."  My apologies for the mistake, as they are two entirely different terms.

[rcschnoor]

cjayosburn wrote:

I used the term "Functional Obsolescence," which was an error.  I was speaking of "Planned Obsolescence."  My apologies for the mistake, as they are two entirely different terms.

You speak of "Planned Obsolescence" and in a way I suppose you are correct. Manufacturers "plan" on continuing research and improving their products. As a result, current products become obsolete. Why wouldn't they OR shouldn't they do exactly that? Just because technology is improved in the future does not mean that "Planned Obsolescence" is a negative thing or something that can even be avoided, unless of course, you feel that a manufacturer should stop trying to improve on a product. Seems if that were the case, we wouldn't even have the technologies we currently have which are "planned to be obsolete" tomorrow.

Not having "Planned Obsolescence" would mean never getting anything better. Better gas mileage, energy efficiency, etc... I personally do not see that as a good thing.

[lewisr13]

cjayosburn wrote:

I do not work for a greedy company, I work for a non-profit whose mission is to serve our community. 

Is that the local, state or federal government you work for?

jk