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Re: A Virgin Kick in the Teeth

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enjoyed the post Geri............. gave me a good laugh this morning :smileyvery-happy:

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Re: A Virgin Kick in the Teeth

Sr. Member
Thanx. (and sorry for the massive topic swerve)

Actually, we provide production for pretty much anyone, so I'm a little familiar with some of the recent rock bands. And while I'm not much of a rocker, I love a group called Rammstein. Odd, I know, but they do indeed rock.

And I almost made a crude reference tbeining kicked by virgins during my traveling days, but after the poster got censored for the reference about marrying the Droid X, I thought better of it. (Well, I really thought better of it without the help of that post, LOL)

Geri O
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Re: A Virgin Kick in the Teeth

Sr. Member
I saw Rammstein in concert last month. They put on an AMAZING show. Pyrotechnics, crazy stage antics... they're amazing :smileytongue:
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Re: Geri O Kicks Back...

Member

Thanks Geri O, for all your kind words. I respect your work on this forum, so I'll take a little time to respond to your comments. I hope you'll take as much time to read them as you did responding to my original post :smileywink:.

 

I've fixed personal computers in my community since before the internet. I've installed and repaired home networks since the introduction of that technology. Nowadays, I get about a dozen calls a week to fix something or give advice about some software or piece of equipment. Troubleshooting gets to be second nature, after a while. I do it for a living, too. I help run the Social Security Administration's video teleconference network. It's one of the largest in existence.

 

As you may imagine, mobile devices have become an increasingly popular topic. And, as any good technicain should, I do my homework. I scan about 2 dozen blog sites, technology news outlets, and fora for information on mobile technology from across the industry. Google, Apple, Android, iOS, Palm, Blackberry, Windows Mobile. I do this not because I'm obsessed with championing one brand over another, but becuase I believe in giving my customers, manyu of whom are my friends, the most options to find the best possible solutions based what they need and want. Some I steer towards Android, some towards Apple. A very few towards the Palm platform.

 

I look at carriers the same way. Some offer better connectivity, or terms, or customer service than others. It's part of the package. One doesn't run without the other.

 

Me? I chose Android becuase you can't swap out the battery on an iPhone yourself. To me, that's not only a design flaw, but a sign Apple wants to control the hardware they make, even though their customers purchase and own it. That kind of control bothers me. I'm not sure if that constitutes a fan boy attitude, but I bet many others feel the same way for similar reasons.

 

That said, I admit my post was trollish. I'd spent the previous week scanning the internet for responses to the latest updates to the DroidX. It's been ugly, particularly on the Motorola and Verizon DroidX fora. Motorola hosts at least 3 threads about GB update bugs with view counts in the low 4 figures. One post about spurious DX system reboots has 200,000 views (yes, two hundred thousand). That's not a blip caused by fan boy rants. That's a flag signalling a genuine and imporant issue on a user-dedicated forum. Those are paying customers gathering in that space and gravitating to that issue. And if you think they're all fan boys, Gerio, then we need to redefine the word.

 

Both my wife and I own a DroidX, as does my stepdaughter. Her kids own Droids, which have not yet recieved the update, but will. What happens with the X now is a pretty good indicator of what I can expect from my friends and clients who own those models. It won't be pretty. And it's mostly avoidable. Based on the research I've conducted across my sources, many of DXGB's problems stem from bugs introduced in  the software Motorola modifies as part of its Blur skin. Verizon loads redundant and unnecessary software which most complain about and may, at minimum reduce battery life and OS performance by loading into memory, even when not activated by the user. 

 

These problems affect every Droid X user. Even you, Gerio, though you may not know it. And they were introduced by the manufacturer and the carrier themselves. And no user can change that without voiding warranties or incurring penalties. That's flat out not right. If it is correct, then do we genuinely own that which we purchased? What then, constitutes ownership? These questions are imortant for every consumer, and not just those whose phones malfunction. And trust me, GeriO, that your phone is working "perfectly" (at least as you have described it) puts you in a small minority of the Droid X posting community.

 

 

To address your technical statements:

 

You wont' get a bill for using Google Maps, but you will if you use VZ Navigator. The services costs $9.99 per month. You don't need VZNav, but you can't get rid of it, either. And VZ makes **bleep** sure it's the initial default choice when mapping a contact.

 

The caller-ID bloat I reffered to is called City ID, which costs $2.99 per month. The dialer default caller ID is fine with me, but like VZNav, I can't get rid of City ID.

 

In the same paragraph, you frequently repeat the phrase "Don't open it, don't see it" in reference to many of Verizon's pre-loaded apps. Perhaps you won't see them, but that doesn't mean the programs aren't sitting in memory. City ID, VZNav, VZ Apps, and Skype Mobile load into memory at phone boot and variously throughout the device's uptime whether you activate them or not. I never use them, yet there they are, sucking up about 70MB of RAM. It takes processor cycles to load those apps, which drains your battery. So does flushing unused apps to clear that RAM for active sofware. And if your phone fails to clear enough RAM when loading a resource-heavy app like Maps, it can lock your device. It happens all the time, and to people who use their phones for more than just voice calls and weather checks in real-life work situations just like yours. Of course devices work "perfectly" if most demand so little of them. Cops, firefighters, EMTs, soldiers do demand more and will be relying on these devices for their work. They can't afford these kind of failures, but that doesn't mean we as customers just shrug and settle for it. And if knowing all these details about the Android OS makes me more a fan boy than a professional, I guess knowing all about how to schlep amps and hook up an audio mixer makes you a kind of fan boy, too. 

 

  

On a more personal level, I directed my frustration towards Verizon, not you. But since you've drifted mighty close to making this a personal thing, please consider:

 

Knowing little or nothing about me, you assumed I was a fan boy and a troll. I can't tell if you've read any of my other posts, but you certainly never replied. Gerio shows up nowhere on any of the other Verizon threads to which I contributed. Word to the wise: at least do this stranger the courtesy of a background check before accusing him of being something you hate (your word). And by telling me you hate me as an alleged fan boy/troll, publicly, in an angry red-letter rant, you've crossed over to what you detest, smiley faces notwithstanding.

 

Okay, now that we both feel better, can we both agree to play nice, stay on topic, and breathe deep before hitting the Post button?

 

With respect,

 

Mike

 

 

 

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Re: Geri O Kicks Back...

Leader

"City ID, VZNav, VZ Apps, and Skype Mobile", where are you seeing these, i don't see 'em in "my apps", as though they're running in the background.

 

 

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Re: Geri O Kicks Back...

Sr. Member

I use LPP and have those "hidden" via the Settings in LPP. Otherwise they show up in my APP drawer.

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Re: Geri O Kicks Back...

Sr. Member
I'm doing my red-letter bit only to distinguish your statements and my responses. I'll start bny saying that if I didn't know better, I'd swear that your original post and this post were written by two different people. The attitude of this post would have gotten way more mileage, traction, and credibility than the way you wrote the OP. And regardless of how good and experienced you are (and I'll take your statements at face value, that's quite a resume!), how you write and how you approach a topic (especially when addressing other owners of the piece of equipment you are writing about) does matter and does establish a "first impression", if you will. And I have demonstrated more than once the willingness to start over a conversation..
And during the course of reading and responding to what you have written, it appears that this post isn't even about the same thing. The OP seemed to be about MotoBlur (or whatever skins) and yes, bloatware, I'll call it that, no problem, that either manufacturers or the carriers have chosen to include on the phones with no options to remove. This topic, more and more, appears to be about Gingerbread issues....?
MrMRM513 wrote:

Thanks Geri O, for all your kind words. I respect your work on this forum, so I'll take a little time to respond to your comments. I hope you'll take as much time to read them as you did responding to my original post :smileywink:.

 

I've fixed personal computers in my community since before the internet. I've installed and repaired home networks since the introduction of that technology. Nowadays, I get about a dozen calls a week to fix something or give advice about some software or piece of equipment. Troubleshooting gets to be second nature, after a while. I do it for a living, too. I help run the Social Security Administration's video teleconference network. It's one of the largest in existence.

 

As you may imagine, mobile devices have become an increasingly popular topic. And, as any good technicain should, I do my homework. I scan about 2 dozen blog sites, technology news outlets, and fora for information on mobile technology from across the industry. Google, Apple, Android, iOS, Palm, Blackberry, Windows Mobile. I do this not because I'm obsessed with championing one brand over another, but becuase I believe in giving my customers, manyu of whom are my friends, the most options to find the best possible solutions based what they need and want. Some I steer towards Android, some towards Apple. A very few towards the Palm platform.

 

I look at carriers the same way. Some offer better connectivity, or terms, or customer service than others. It's part of the package. One doesn't run without the other.

 

Me? I chose Android becuase you can't swap out the battery on an iPhone yourself. To me, that's not only a design flaw, but a sign Apple wants to control the hardware they make, even though their customers purchase and own it. That kind of control bothers me. I'm not sure if that constitutes a fan boy attitude (I'd say on that merit by itself, not at all), but I bet many others feel the same way for similar reasons.

 

That said, I admit my post was trollish. I'd spent the previous week scanning the internet for responses to the latest updates to the DroidX. It's been ugly, particularly on the Motorola and Verizon DroidX fora. Motorola hosts at least 3 threads about GB update bugs with view counts in the low 4 figures. One post about spurious DX system reboots has 200,000 views (yes, two hundred thousand) (Let me ask, where is it indicated that all of those views are from people that have problems?). That's not a blip caused by fan boy rants. That's a flag signalling a genuine and imporant issue on a user-dedicated forum. Those are paying customers gathering in that space and gravitating to that issue. And if you think they're all fan boys, Gerio, then we need to redefine the word.

 

Both my wife and I own a DroidX, as does my stepdaughter. Her kids own Droids, which have not yet recieved the update, but will. What happens with the X now is a pretty good indicator of what I can expect from my friends and clients who own those models. It won't be pretty. And it's mostly avoidable. Based on the research I've conducted across my sources, many of DXGB's problems stem from bugs introduced in  the software Motorola modifies as part of its Blur skin. Verizon loads redundant and unnecessary software which most complain about and may, at minimum reduce battery life and OS performance by loading into memory, even when not activated by the user. (But here's the proverbial wrench in the works...I've updated 2 Xs to Gingerbread and I'm simply not seeing the problems that I know a lot of people are. So should I just sit here keeping my mouth shut and thanking my lucky stars? The forums are for engaging in dialogues between users and to interpret what you're saying, those of us fortunate enough to not have problems aren't allowed to participate. And Android is supposed to allocate memory based on what programs the user is, well, using at the time and not to programs that just sit there. My vocation is in Pro Audio and hence, I've become quite involved with Digital Audio, the equipment, and networking of digital audio gear (I can mix a show or change the settings of an installed system from my house, if I chose to set up the network that way...:smileyvery-happy:). I'm not as familiar with the inner workings of the Android OS, so I can't lay it out as eloquently as others here. 

 

These problems affect every Droid X user. Even you, Gerio, though you may not know it. And they were introduced by the manufacturer and the carrier themselves. And no user can change that without voiding warranties or incurring penalties. That's flat out not right. If it is correct, then do we genuinely own that which we purchased? What then, constitutes ownership? These questions are imortant for every consumer, and not just those whose phones malfunction. And trust me, GeriO, that your phone is working "perfectly" (at least as you have described it) puts you in a small minority of the Droid X posting community. Putting words in my mouth. The issue that I kept seeing was the reboot when the X went from Landscape mode to Portrait. Every couple of weeks

 

 

To address your technical statements:

 

You wont' get a bill for using Google Maps, but you will if you use VZ Navigator. The services costs $9.99 per month. You don't need VZNav, but you can't get rid of it, either. And VZ makes **bleep** sure it's the initial default choice when mapping a contact. So where am I wrong?

 

The caller-ID bloat I reffered to is called City ID, which costs $2.99 per month. The dialer default caller ID is fine with me, but like VZNav, I can't get rid of City ID. Didn't say you could, again, where am I wrong?

 

In the same paragraph, you frequently repeat the phrase "Don't open it, don't see it" in reference to many of Verizon's pre-loaded apps. Perhaps you won't see them, but that doesn't mean the programs aren't sitting in memory. City ID, VZNav, VZ Apps, and Skype Mobile load into memory at phone boot and variously throughout the device's uptime whether you activate them or not. I never use them, yet there they are, sucking up about 70MB of RAM. It takes processor cycles to load those apps, which drains your battery. So does flushing unused apps to clear that RAM for active sofware. And if your phone fails to clear enough RAM when loading a resource-heavy app like Maps, it can lock your device. It happens all the time, and to people who use their phones for more than just voice calls and weather checks in real-life work situations just like yours. Of course devices work "perfectly" if most demand so little of them. Cops, firefighters, EMTs, soldiers do demand more and will be relying on these devices for their work. They can't afford these kind of failures, but that doesn't mean we as customers just shrug and settle for it. And if knowing all these details about the Android OS makes me more a fan boy than a professional, I guess knowing all about how to schlep amps and hook up an audio mixer makes you a kind of fan boy, too. But I don't give the appearance of sitting in my room readin audio magazines and pretending to be an expert about it, as a lot of fanboys appear when posting in the style of your first post. This post doesn't appear that way at all.  

  

On a more personal level, I directed my frustration towards Verizon, not you. And you still aren't getting that you insulted the entire Droid X user population in your first sentence. But since you've drifted mighty close to making this a personal thing, please consider: 

 

Knowing little or nothing about me, you assumed I was a fan boy and a troll. I can't tell if you've read any of my other posts, but you certainly never replied. Gerio shows up nowhere on any of the other Verizon threads to which I contributed. Word to the wise: at least do this stranger the courtesy of a background check before accusing him of being something you hate (your word). And by telling me you hate me as an alleged fan boy/troll, publicly, in an angry red-letter rant, you've crossed over to what you detest, smiley faces notwithstanding. 

 

Okay, now that we both feel better, can we both agree to play nice, stay on topic, and breathe deep before hitting the Post button?

 

With respect,

 

Mike 

 

 

Well, I was going to try and play along, but I see you still miss the point of my first post when it's all said and done. You wrote the original post, you ought to own up to it. Although I responded according to my interpretation of that post, it's clear you aren't a fanboy, but you can harbor all the animosity toward me you like. And to boot, I think you mis-understand how the Android memory system works. But that's going to be your problem from here on out. 
My points, where they apply, still stand. You can figure that out on your own.
Geri O

 

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Re: A Virgin Kick in the Teeth

Sr. Member

Mike -

 

We understand that you are not happy with what Verizon has done with the X. The software they do not allow you to uninstall, the blur that you do not like, and a few other things. We get that. You made that perfectly clear in the first post. But you also made some generalizations that offend some people. But you have your opinion, and we have our opinion.

 

But then you take offense to Geri's comments. He decided to share his frustration with your comments, just like you decided to share your frustrations with Verizon and Motorola.

 

You said in your second post that you decided not to get an iPhone because Apple doesn't allow you to change the battery. That it was Apple's desire to control the hardware that turned you off on them, but that is a part of Apples success. When they control the hardware and software, they can make sure that it all works together flawlessly. Verizon is doing the same think in principle, they can control the hardware/software that run on their networks. It is their business decision to do this. But they put software on their phones that you might want/not want. They also control your ability to uninstall it or not. Again, their business decision. They know that some people will nto be happy about it, but they count on the fact that people will choose their network, and not worry to much about what they can uninstall/not install.

 

So you do have a choice. You can go with Virgin Mobile, or another carrier or stay with Verizon. the choice is yours and your alone.

 

BTW, I too have been repairing computers since the DOS 3.3 days, the Apple System 6.7 days, and when token ring was so expensive, only Dr offices were willing to put that in. So yeah, I have been around the block a few times myself.

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Re: A Virgin Kick in the Teeth

Sr. Member

Here's something to ponder:  VZW is currently the SOLE nationwide provider to offer TRULY UNLIMITED mobile DATA.  As such it's understandable that they would request the Manufacturers to add measures to prevent this service from being abused, hense things like MotoBlur.... HTC Sense....

 

As for the preInstalled additional cost apps, you can't hold it against VZW for attempting to make a few extra bucks.  I'm personally glad that VZW stopped locking down GPS chips and only allowing their paid app to utilize them.  It annoys me as well that apps which I do not use load into memory, which is why I use an Automated Task Killer to kill those processes and keep them from running.

 

It will be a long time before companies stop trying to get you for more money by buying additional products or services.  Heck, Ford will still try to terminate your vehicle warranty for not using Motorcraft oil....   It's just the way business works....

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Re: A Virgin Kick in the Teeth

Sr. Member
Hint: VzW's "unlimited" isn't any more "unlimited" than Sprint's option. Both carriers do not charge for data usage on their respective unlimited plans, regardless of quantity. Both carriers throttle data speeds at an undetermined "high usage" amount (read the VzW customer agreement, it's the last two paragraphs!). Both have provisions against excessive roaming usage (Sprint's is 800 minutes or 300mb off-network data, VzW's is the usually-less-stringent "no more than half your usage being done on roaming networks").

Bottom line, "truly unlimited" is a misnomer. Even Verizon's data option is Unlimited*...
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