Re: Wifi Calling Service on BYOD Unlocked Phones
tgm1024
Enthusiast - Level 2

@vzw_customer_support wrote:

We assure you our intention is to help you in the best way possible. Besides the Wifi Calling, do you have any other concern with your device? 

 

RachelM_VZW


Rachel, can you please have one of the verizon android software engineers chime in to explain this technically?  I'm a software engineer myself, but there's only so far I can fault-isolate this one.

YOU can answer this one:

Why are the Best Buy reps saying that Verizon told them words similar to: "The reason for getting a carrier phone is so that you can get WiFi calling."  They told me (and many others) that, and it's incorrect.

However what you cannot answer is what happens at the low level to explain why it really seems that Verizon is trying its hardest to make non-carrier phones work well.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, it does pre-Oreo, it fails Oreo and later, (etc.) That will require a software engineer.

For instance, I got my wifi working on my Samsung-bought S10+ by talking it directly to a Verizon store and the owner pushed all the right buttons on his company iPad and >poof< it worked (after asking me to download a few utilities).  However, (and perhaps this helps your engineers), the message and voicemail badge numbers refuse to show up.  You wouldn't be able to answer that one, or at least I can't imagine how unless it's been covered already as a bulletin to you (which it clearly hasn't because the reps all seem to be in the dark about it).

Thanks

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Re: Wifi Calling Service on BYOD Unlocked Phones
mama23dogs
Legend

@tgm1024 wrote:

@vzw_customer_support wrote:

We assure you our intention is to help you in the best way possible. Besides the Wifi Calling, do you have any other concern with your device? 

 

RachelM_VZW


Rachel, can you please have one of the verizon android software engineers chime in to explain this technically?  I'm a software engineer myself, but there's only so far I can fault-isolate this one.

YOU can answer this one:

Why are the Best Buy reps saying that Verizon told them words similar to: "The reason for getting a carrier phone is so that you can get WiFi calling."  They told me (and many others) that, and it's incorrect.

However what you cannot answer is what happens at the low level to explain why it really seems that Verizon is trying its hardest to make non-carrier phones work well.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, it does pre-Oreo, it fails Oreo and later, (etc.) That will require a software engineer.

For instance, I got my wifi working on my Samsung-bought S10+ by talking it directly to a Verizon store and the owner pushed all the right buttons on his company iPad and >poof< it worked (after asking me to download a few utilities).  However, (and perhaps this helps your engineers), the message and voicemail badge numbers refuse to show up.  You wouldn't be able to answer that one, or at least I can't imagine how unless it's been covered already as a bulletin to you (which it clearly hasn't because the reps all seem to be in the dark about it).

Thanks


You are looking for a technical reason, when it's financial.   Carriers want to tie customers for 2 years, or longer, if they can.  This is why they use installments.  And it's why they put carrier exclusive software on the phones.   
Apple has control over its phones, but also has made phones that won't work on Verizon or Sprint.  
Android is different.   There are different manufacturers, each with a different idea of how they want it to function.  They may start with Google, but then add their own skins.   Carriers are adding their own layer, and often put software on phones that isn't compatible with other carriers.  It's far to fractured. 
You were fortunate to get Wifi calling working on a non branded phone.  Because of cdma shut down, Verizon May allow more non branded phones to access Wifi calling.  BUT - If you take the phone to At&t, you won't get Wifi calling.  But on t-mobile it will.  

 

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Re: Wifi Calling Service on BYOD Unlocked Phones
tgm1024
Enthusiast - Level 2

@mama23dogs wrote:

@tgm1024 wrote:

@vzw_customer_support wrote:

We assure you our intention is to help you in the best way possible. Besides the Wifi Calling, do you have any other concern with your device? 

 

RachelM_VZW


Rachel, can you please have one of the verizon android software engineers chime in to explain this technically?  I'm a software engineer myself, but there's only so far I can fault-isolate this one.

YOU can answer this one:

Why are the Best Buy reps saying that Verizon told them words similar to: "The reason for getting a carrier phone is so that you can get WiFi calling."  They told me (and many others) that, and it's incorrect.

However what you cannot answer is what happens at the low level to explain why it really seems that Verizon is trying its hardest to make non-carrier phones work well.  Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, it does pre-Oreo, it fails Oreo and later, (etc.) That will require a software engineer.

For instance, I got my wifi working on my Samsung-bought S10+ by talking it directly to a Verizon store and the owner pushed all the right buttons on his company iPad and >poof< it worked (after asking me to download a few utilities).  However, (and perhaps this helps your engineers), the message and voicemail badge numbers refuse to show up.  You wouldn't be able to answer that one, or at least I can't imagine how unless it's been covered already as a bulletin to you (which it clearly hasn't because the reps all seem to be in the dark about it).

Thanks


You are looking for a technical reason, when it's financial.


1. You don't know that.  That's guesswork.

2. To first determine if it's anything other than technical, you must first rule out whether or not it is technical.  And no, statements like "but it works with a carrier phone and the same exact phone non-carrier fails" does not indict Verizon for somehow "doing it on purpose" or it being a "financial reason".

Otherwise, you're just content to mudsling based on far too little information.  Best Buy reps are convinced that my phone doesn't work (and can't work), when it does.  Verizon reps themselves seem to be confused as to why.  Verizon corporate sometimes says that it's because of a software mismatch, that some carriers (like Samsung) fix with time.

Start with the engineering answer, then move from that to conclusions.

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Re: Wifi Calling Service on BYOD Unlocked Phones
mama23dogs
Legend

@tgm1024 

1. You don't know that.  That's guesswork.

    Can you name a technical reason?  You can't, there is none.   Can you name a business reason?  Yeah, I can to tie customers with installments or carrier short ware that makes it hard to switch.  

2. To first determine if it's anything other than technical, you must first rule out whether or not it is technical.  And no, statements like "but it works with a carrier phone and the same exact phone non-carrier fails" does not indict Verizon for somehow "doing it on purpose" or it being a "financial reason".

     Of course it's 'technical!   It's a choice by both At&t and Verizon to exclude most non branded androids.  The only 'technical' thing about it, is At&t and Verizon choose to program their system to exclude this feature, when T-mobile and sprint (and a ton of smaller carriers) do not.  

Otherwise, you're just content to mudsling based on far too little information.  Best Buy reps are convinced that my phone doesn't work (and can't work), when it does.  Verizon reps themselves seem to be confused as to why.  Verizon corporate sometimes says that it's because of a software mismatch, that some carriers (like Samsung) fix with time.

    All that tells me is that neither Best Buy nor Verizon representatives have any idea why the phones do work, or don't work.  There is now at least one Verizon rep who knows it is possible to get WiFi calling on a factory unlocked S10.  Because with some determination he managed to force it on yours.

Start with the engineering answer, then move from that to conclusions.

   What engineering answer?   This is a software exclusion. It's a decision from on high from both AT&T and Verizon to check the IMEI, and look for their carrier software packets.  Without those two things passing the computers inspection you don't get Wi-Fi calling.   
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Re: Wifi Calling Service on BYOD Unlocked Phones
NewOldcustomer
Contributor - Level 2

Arggg.  Auto correct errors. 🤦‍♀️

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Re: Wifi Calling Service on BYOD Unlocked Phones
tgm1024
Enthusiast - Level 2

There could be a myriad of technical reasons at the software level that are hidden.  Of course I can't name them.....I don't have access to anything Verizon specific, and I certainly don't have access to the source code that embodies what Verizon does, and I'm trying to not speculate too much on what it might be.

Stop making assertions you cannot back up.  Unless Verizon comes forward with an official declaration saying that this is the case (and I can't find it, can you?) then we need to rule out the technical.

This is the principal of fault-isolation.

Keep in mind, my Samsung bought S10+ WORKS.

Your confidence in this though needs clarification:

  1. Are you a software engineer?  I am.
  2. Do you have over 30 years experience designing products in unix variants (like linux, the OS underneath Android) ?  I do, though my specific experience isn't Android.
  3. Do you have embedded systems experience?  I do.
  4. Have you programmed real-time DSP based systems?  I have.

There's a ton of stuff that could go wrong or go flaky in complex systems that good faith attempts to work with can fall short of smooth functioning.

Let the engineers speak if the rep here can grab one, otherwise all you're doing is guessing.

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Re: Wifi Calling Service on BYOD Unlocked Phones
mama23dogs
Legend

No, I'm a cell phone geek, and I understand why and how AT&T and Verizon have been excluding non branded phones.  
It's not much of a guess.  It's common sense.  Because they won't let it.  
   They won't let it because they can.  Of COURSE it's in the software.  As a software engineer, you could isolate the file Verizon and ATT branded phones have, and non branded phones do not.  
    You could have taken your phone to t-mobile and it would get Wifi calling out if the box.  As will both Razer and razer 2, all the oneplus phones, all Pixel phones, etc.  t-mobile doesn't block the Wifi calling feature built into these devices.  Not by IMEI or because of a carrier installed file.  
    AT&T and Verizon do.  They block it by both IMEI and a carrier file that AT&T and Verizon system look for and can't find on a non branded phone.  

   It's more of a mystery why it DOES work on your non branded phone.  It should not.  

In 6 years I have never seen a cell engineer respond, to this or any question.  So you'll have to search elsewhere.  


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Re: Wifi Calling Service on BYOD Unlocked Phones
tgm1024
Enthusiast - Level 2

@mama23dogs wrote:

It's more of a mystery why it DOES work on your non branded phone.  It should not.


"Should not" because of your "common sense"?  Stop this please.

Look, sit there and establish what the truth is based on nothing if it makes you feel better.  Shout it to the wind.  But then take a look at the android forums and you'll see a mix of working and non-working.

Heck, it even makes sense to you somehow to simply say that my phone "should not work" with WiFi calling.  You simply don't know this stuff for sure.  Rather than admit that you don't know for sure, you're content to say that my phone shouldn't work.

And it's not about some "file" per se.  That's simply not how it works.  Linux and Android have their source code freely available to these guys.  They're free to customize both levels of this OS as they need it.

It's certainly possible that they're relying on their own compiled software that can't easily be compartmentalized into something that just smoothly shoehorns into a Samsung-only software version.  It's not necessarily just like "adding an app", or "finding a file".  There's much more going on here than that.

In the simplest non-engineering terms I can manage: The carrier branded Verizon android isn't just a non-carrier android with a single file added.

If what you said about them intentionally doing this was true, it would be dead simple for them to prevent this from ever working on my phone.  They could make it so that no Verizon rep anywhere could ever enable WiFi calling for my phone.  It would be the simplest thing ever.

However, they don't do that, because there have been many successes, and most reps (outside of Best Buy reps) seem to not understand that it doesn't always work.

This will take a software engineer to figure out.  If that Rep can dig one up, it would be helpful.  If they never do that, then so be it.  It doesn't hurt to ask.

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Re: Wifi Calling Service on BYOD Unlocked Phones
mama23dogs
Legend

You aren't paying any attention.  Go find someone who works for Verizon.  I'm sure they will provide a very unsatisfactory answer.

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Re: Wifi Calling Service on BYOD Unlocked Phones
wadeo307
Enthusiast - Level 2

I just got off the phone with a Verizon Wireless Tier 2 Tech Support Staff Member. What mama23dogs said about the ability of non-carrier-branded phones to use Wi-Fi Calling has some truth to it. Phones do have to be compatible with Wi-Fi Calling services. However, it is not true is that all unbranded phones (both Android phones and iPhones) are incompatible with Wi-Fi Calling service. As mentioned earlier, it depends on whether or not the Wi-Fi Calling capability is in the phone itself. If you want to use Wi-Fi Calling, look at the non-carrier-branded phone's tech specs webpage on the phone manufacturer's website. It it says nothing about Wi-Fi Calling capabilities, you can safely assume that Wi-Fi Calling is not supported. That information is coming from Tier 2 Customer Care. Also, if you so happen to have purchased your phone from Verizon Wireless, check the device tutorials to see if there are instructions to enable Wi-Fi Calling. If the instructions for your particular phone do not exist, then it is not Wi-Fi Calling capable. It's that easy. If you have questions about or issues with enabling Wi-Fi Calling, then you can call customer service. They will be able to assist you further.

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