NY to Ireland Iphone 4s no longer under contract

[Weth]

You are just not understanding how it works.  A Verizon 3G world phone, like the 4S has both CDMA and GSM radios.  In US, the GSM radio is not used.  Verizon has world partners that when travelling with the Verizon world phone and no partner CDMA provider is available (I.e. Most of world), the Verizon SIM will allow roaming on GSM partner networks at Verizon's roaming rates.  The phone and SIM Can be locked or unlocked in this situation.  The SIM is not used at all in the US since CDMA doesn't use SIMs.  A locked phone does not impact it working on an International GSM network with the included Verizon SIM. 

Almost every one of your posts has a critical fundamental misunderstanding on how Verizon 3G world phones work and that is leading your understanding in the wrong direction. 

[inisfad]

Sorry,  but I don't think that this is correct

Verizon allows use of THEIR SIM CARD without having the phone unlocked

for use with other SIM cards.

The Verizon sim is in the phone but not used when the phone is

transceiving on CDMA (so not used in the US).  No CDMA network uses a

sim card - the sim is only for use with a GSM signal.  When the 'sim' is

locked, it cannot pick up the GSM signal.  When the 'sim' is unlocked,

it is not, in essence the sim card, but the capacity to pick up the GSM

signal that is unlocked - whether you are using the Verizon sim, or any

other local sim, as long as you are outside of the United States.  

What they have 'set up with Apple' is putting your IMEI on the Apple

'white list', so that when the IMEI is transmitted, it's not blocked for

GSM use.  By the way, even the link that you provide indicates that a

local sim can be used.  So, this is not correct, either:

The fact that Verizon has requirements regarding an iPhone 4S unlock

process, as described HERE

<https://community.verizonwireless.com/thread/696707>, which ARE NOT

required for adding global service to the account of a Verizon

customer seems to make it obvious the 2 methods of unlocking the phone

for international use(with Verizon service and without Verizon

service) are different.

There are no 'two different methods'.  Either the phone CAN use a sim.

Or it can't.  There is no reason to go through an unlock process and not

add global service, as Verizon is on CDMA which doesn't use a sim.  So,

sim = global, no?

And actually, I do have an issue with your statement about 'THEIR'

iphone.  When you purchase a phone from Verizon, you are able to

purchase it with a subsidy - but it is purchased nonetheless - and you

are confined to their contract which, in essence, pays Verizon for the

purchase of the phone.  When this is satisfied, it is not THEIR phone.

It's YOURS.  And that is the crux of the matter. You own a phone, you

have paid for it, but you are still under the dictate of Verizon.  That

is the issue.

[inisfad]

No, I think I understand what you are saying - you are differentiating

between using Verizon (or their partners) to roam, vs unlocking the sim

card.  However, my point is that, if you read through the internet, you

will find that people have found that when they only have the agreement

to roam, presumably only through use of the Verizon sim, they have been

able to put in a local sim and it works.  This does not seem to be an

unusual occurrence.  Of course, however, this just adds to my

frustration, as the sim that I would like to use is from a Verizon

partner.  That's what makes this even more frustrating.

[rcschnoor]

Whether or not you think it is correct makes no difference.

With your argument, once the phone is unlocked you should be able to use ANY SIM card in the phone, even one from another provider in the US such as AT&T or T-Mobile yet there are MANY instances on the internet which will tell you otherwise and have made many former Verizon customers furious when their UNLOCKED iPhone 4S is unable to be used on a network such as AT&T or T-Mobile. I suppose all of those complaints are simply wrong. After all, their phones are unlocked and ANY SIM card can be used!!!!!!

Couldn't possibly be that Verizon, thru an agreement with Apple, is able to unlock the phone for THEIR SIM card without having other SIM cards work?? Now where have I heard this before... Oh yeah, in one of my earlier posts.

Think of it as the front door of my house. I have a deadbolt and a lock on the doorknob. I can unlock ONE of those and you would STILL not be able to get through the door unless you had ALSO unlocked the OTHER lock. Can't imagine Verizon/Apple could possibly come up with something like that????

Nowhere have I said a CDMA network uses a SIM card. I am aware of this.

Possibly you could be a bit more specific with THIS statement:

inisfad wrote:

By the way, even the link that you provide indicates that a

local sim can be used.

simply because you have actually said something I can PARTIALLY agree with. Unfortunately, you may not understand the distinction as you did not when comparing your Droid Razr/Spyder with the iPhone 4S and their differing capabilities.

Verizon 4G phones would fit into the category according to the statement you made above. Verizon 3G phones may not necessarily have the same capabilities.

[rcschnoor]

inisfad wrote:

By the way, even the link that you provide indicates that a

local sim can be used.

Possibly I see what you mean by this statement.

If you mean information from the following post, I don't see how that possibly applies to you, a non-Verizon customer???

"Verizon iPhone 4S SIM UNLOCK Tutorial

This question is Not Answered.

SGMD1 Oct 19, 2011 11:40 PM

Verizon has confirmed (here and here) they WILL unlock the SIM on the iPhone 4S, allowing for use of local SIM cards while traveling abroad (no word yet on whether this will allow for use on AT&T and T-Mobile.) This is different than the jailbreak unlocking method; SIM unlocking through Verizon is permanent and will not affect your warranty in any way.

1. Meet the following requirements:

* Must be a Verizon Wireless customer.
* The iPhone 4S being unlocked must be active on a Verizon Wireless line of service.
* The line of service must be active at least 60 days.
* The line of service must be in good standing for the past 60 days.
* Only one SIM Unlock per line every 10 months."

Unfortunately you do not meet any of the requirements.

[Weth]

I think you are "reading through the Internet" to pick out things that agree with what you want, rather than getting the whole story.

Permission to roam does not equal unlock

unlock does not equal permission to roam.

[inisfad]

This is contrary to all the other information on the internet, as well

as what I've been posting all along - with the unlock, while the phone

will continue to be locked to the CDMA network, and the sim unusuable,

WHILE YOU ARE IN THE US, once you leave the US, the  GSM is usable for

any sim card.  The locking (frankly, even with the Droid phone) is only

effective while you are in the US.  That's the point.

[inisfad]

Yes, this is the point.  The contract on the phone has expired.  The

customer who had, and paid for the contract and phone, is no longer a

Verizon customer.  The phone is fully paid for.  I am not in the US, so,

even if I WANTED to be a Verizon customer, this is impossible.  There is

no reason not to unlock this phone, as far as I can see.  Verizon does

not suffer any loss whatsoever by unlocking it, do they?  The only

'loss' is that a $500 phone now becomes garbage, because of a

proprietary policy that is no longer under contract.

[inisfad]

No, I certainly understand the difference between roaming and unlocking

the sim.  Of course, the point is that, Verizon cannot give you

permission to roam outside North America without unlocking the GSM

transceiver.  I believe that this is why, for example, the iphone 4

cannot be used in Europe, whether you have roaming or not.  It only

works on CDMA, and there is no CDMA network here for the phone to pick

up.  In order for the iphone 4s to be used in Europe, that GSM

transceiver must be unlocked.  Sadly, this appears to only be an issue

with the iphone 4s - the newer iphones apparently come with GSM unlocked

already.

[rcschnoor]

inisfad wrote:

Yes, this is the point.  The contract on the phone has expired.  The

customer who had, and paid for the contract and phone, is no longer a

Verizon customer.  The phone is fully paid for.  I am not in the US, so,

even if I WANTED to be a Verizon customer, this is impossible.  There is

no reason not to unlock this phone, as far as I can see.  Verizon does

not suffer any loss whatsoever by unlocking it, do they?  The only

'loss' is that a $500 phone now becomes garbage, because of a

proprietary policy that is no longer under contract.

You can argue all you want, you have been informed of Verizon's policy. You may not like it, or believe it, but the fact remains since you are still here arguing to have your phone unlocked, you are not able to do so. I suppose you can CONTINUE to argue and not have service with that device OR you can move on to another device which you CAN have service.

Good luck.